Industrial Espionage

[ben7]

Industrial Espionage

Remember the bad capacitor plauge?
With at least double the products being sold now, since 2002, 2003etc... , what would happen if the bad capacitor plauge happens again?

I have personally seen Robycon caps (no joke!)

You've seen very cheap electronics before,
and with so many mfg's nowadays, when could another disaster happen?

Copy-cat mfg's make parts and make them look like brand name parts as best as they can-when they are really crap?

What if medical equipment used fake parts.
Human lives are at risk-

I just can't wait for facotories to come back to the USA, so the quality of stuff will be much better.

Why waste so much fuel to ship parts from all over the world to china to be made into a product, then only to be shipped back around the world again? Hello, global warming folks!

What is amazing is the amount of competition in the electronics world!
**broken link removed**

When could industrial espionage strike again?! (yes, you could call me a worry-wart!)

-I want to know what your opinion about this is like

-Ben

 

[blueroomelectronics]

What's a "plauge"?

Cheap and cheerful mainstream electronics are often sourced by whichever supplier can supply parts the cheapest. You can buy premium grade consumer goods that usually means better grade components.

Medical equipment is not cheap and the parts and manufacture are ISO regulated and heavily tested before they are used on people.

 

[3v0]

I would not call counter fitting parts Industrial Espionage.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

True, any country can make crap.

 

[ben7]

Medical equipment is not cheap and the parts and manufacture are ISO regulated and heavily tested before they are used on people.

I didn't know that.

And you don't know what a plauge is!?

 

[ben7]

But what about the economy?

 

[3v0]

Time For Tariff's ?

I think china is doing a bang up job of ruining our economy with or without industrial spying. Our people and government do not seem to have any will to stop it. Perhaps we have the greater share of the blame.

I have continued this under a new thread "Time for Tariffs"
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[ben7]

I think china is doing a bang up job of ruining our economy with or without industrial spying.

Me too!

 

[blueroomelectronics]

And you don't know what a plauge is!?

Sorry nope. Did you mean plague?

 

[ben7]

Sorry nope. Did you mean plague?

plague or plauge which ever one is correct

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

I ran into the old cheapie caps when my power supply blew out and almost all the electro's in the circuit were leaking. Replaced them all, back up and running. Size is a little hard to get right though because some of them were a little smaller than 'real' caps so i had to move one over slightly, which is hard to do without affecting lead length too much.

 

[ben7]

Hi,

I ran into the old cheapie caps when my power supply blew out and almost all the electro's in the circuit were leaking. Replaced them all, back up and running. Size is a little hard to get right though because some of them were a little smaller than 'real' caps so i had to move one over slightly, which is hard to do without affecting lead length too much.

I had bad caps in my PSU too, but they were the high voltages ones that had gone. Replaced them with 2 CDE 200v 680uF caps. The bad ones were the crappy JEC kinds. Luckly I found them before they blew!

 

[cr0sh]

I just can't wait for facotories to come back to the USA, so the quality of stuff will be much better.

If this ever happens (I don't see it happening, honestly), expect the "workers" to be mostly or completely robotic; it would likely be the only way for us to compete on the global market in the long run. Many if not most of the tasks in a factory could be easily automated if it weren't for the humans standing in the way (who should be out getting an education on designing/programming the robots).

Alright - I know the above is very simplistic, just like this entire argument so far; the web of issues behind all of this is so massively intertwined, I am not sure how or if it can be unravelled to come up with a real working solution that doesn't cause harm to some sector of our economy. I do know that change has to occur and will occur, and drag us kicking and screaming along with it, no matter how painful or damaging it is...

 

[HiTech]

What if medical equipment used fake parts.
Human lives are at risk-
I-Ben

Reputable medical equip. mfgr. companies thoroughly test and retest their products before going to market. Each item off the line is traceable back to practically every step of mfgr. Just one reason the cost for these items is so very high. Components are tested and certified prior to assembly. Furthermore, hospitals and clinics have their medical equip. certified periodically and more often on a regular basis. Everything is calibrated, test run, and then certified. Technicians are held accountable practically every step along the way. I wouldn't worry about a bad batch of capacitors sneaking into a production line.

 

[ben7]

Reputable medical equip. mfgr. companies thoroughly test and retest their products before going to market. Each item off the line is traceable back to practically every step of mfgr. Just one reason the cost for these items is so very high. Components are tested and certified prior to assembly. Furthermore, hospitals and clinics have their medical equip. certified periodically and more often on a regular basis. Everything is calibrated, test run, and then certified. Technicians are held accountable practically every step along the way. I wouldn't worry about a bad batch of capacitors sneaking into a production line.

OK OK! I guess if the hospitals get rid of all their equipment after a few months than they must want really reliable, and precise machines.

Actually, I used to get tons of junk cheap from this guy at a flea market. His friend worked at a hospital, so he got to take home a lot of trashed top-of-the-line machines. He had almost brand new pulleys, belts, switches, motors, batteries, circuit boards, fans, bearings and a lot of other goodies that he'd sell for a few bucks per bag of parts

Sadly, he has moved and he does not come to the flea market anymore

 

[Reloadron]

When could industrial espionage strike again?! (yes, you could call me a worry-wart!)

-I want to know what your opinion about this is like

Again? Industrial espionage strikes more frequently that the average person would like to believe or be aware of. Although we tend to associate China with it the practice is carried out by many nations and even large corporations within the same nation. Industrial espionage is an ongoing process.

Governments and large corporations spend millions of dollars trying to safeguard and protect their secrets and propitiatory information.

Agents and the process of collection

Economic or industrial espionage commonly occurs in one of two ways. Firstly, a dissatisfied employee appropriates information to advance their own interests or to damage the company or, secondly, a competitor or foreign government seeks information to advance its own technological or financial interest. 'Moles' or trusted insiders are generally considered the best sources for economic or industrial espionage. Historically known as a 'patsy,' insiders can be induced, willingly or under duress to provide information. A 'Patsy' may be initially asked to hand over inconsequential information and once compromised by committing a crime, bribed into handing over material which is more sensitive. Individuals may leave one company to take up employment with another and take sensitive information with them. Such apparent behavior has been the focus of numerous industrial espionage cases that have resulted in legal battles. Some countries hire individuals to do spying rather than make use of their own intelligence agencies. Academics, business delegates and students are often thought to be utilized by governments in gathering information. Some countries, such as Japan, have been reported to expect students be debriefed on returning home. A spy may follow a guided tour of a factory then get 'lost'. A spy could be an engineer, a maintenance man, a cleaner, a insurance salesman or an inspector. Basically anyone who has legitimate access to the premises.

A spy may break into the premises to steal data. They may search through waste paper and refuse, known as "dumpster diving". Information may be compromised via unsolicited requests for information, marketing surveys or use of technical support, research or software facilities. Outsourced industrial producers may ask for information outside of the agreed contract.

Computers have made the process of collecting information, due to the ease of access to large amounts of information, through physical contact or via the internet.

The above quote taken from here.

Industrial espionage is alive and well and big business globally spends millions of dollars to protect their secrets and interest. Industrial espionage extends itself well beyond the capacitor disaster and counterfeit products.

When a janitor at a large corporation earning $30,000 a year shows up at work after paying cash for a new home and driving a $70,000 sports car there is reason to believe something just may be wrong unless he/she won the lottery.

Ron

 

[shortbus=]

I think china is doing a bang up job of ruining our economy with or without industrial spying. Our people and government do not seem to have any will to stop it. Perhaps we have the greater share of the blame.
QUOTE]

A lot of it is not even Industrial Spying! Our companies give them the technology to make the parts for them. They in turn give or sell that technology to smaller companies in country to make the same things.

Having worked for GM/Delphi, we made machines that were then sent to China, India and Korea to make parts. All the while the parts we made were still being made on machines/equipment from the '60's, '70's and '80's. The stuff we sent to them was brand new re-engineered and debugged, ready to run!

I was a skilled tradesman that helped make that equipment, so I was part of the problem too. But the company lied to us, telling us that new parts and products would take the place of the stuff that was being sent off-shore. Guess what happened next? The company went bankrupt! Not all of it, just the North American part, the holdings off-shore weren't included in the bankruptcy.

From guy's that went off-shore we were told that the agreement with the off-shore countries was that parts are to be made for the U.S. companies for 8-10 hours a day. Do the parts stop being made after those hours? Guess again, they run 24 hours. Guess where the excess parts are sold, all over the world as replacement parts!

Not industrial spying but something way worse!

 

[ben7]

Chinese companies love to steal product designs from other companies.

I have seen plenty of ICs with no name on them.
They were made by someone who stole the ICs circuit design, and they didn't want to get caught.

 

[ben7]

Zhu Zhu pets

LOL I have found out that a lot of people are getting pissed off with these cheap chinese toy pets. Search it on google to see for yourself. (the reveiws show the most)

 

[Reloadron]

Chinese companies love to steal product designs from other companies.

I have seen plenty of ICs with no name on them.
They were made by someone who stole the ICs circuit design, and they didn't want to get caught.

That doesn't always mean the chip is a counterfeit. Frequently manufacturers remove identifying data from chips when they use them in proprietary boards. This serves as an aid in keeping others from copying or re engineering their designs. Additionally large manufacturers go direct to a chip manufacturer and will order a custom or standard chip sans markings when they buy huge lots of chips, like thousands at a time. This practice also prevents end users of easily repairing boards troubleshooting to the component level leaving the end user to buy the next higher sub assembly. Seeing chips sans markings doesn't necessarily make the chip a counterfeit chip.

Ah the infamous Zhu Zhu pets. Been there and done that. Actually for the $5 to $10 they cost they are amusing. They don't have a long life expectancy but neither do live hamsters and when they die they don't leave a 5 year old crying. Actually the guy who came up with the idea is a nice guy who found a good notch to turn a buck.

Ron