Heavy Duty Batteries really a bargin?

[FattKidd]

I was wondering what other people think about those "Heavy Duty" Batteries. I have found personally that Alkaline Batteries far out perform "Heavy Duty" batteries. I think if i remember correctly that the Heavy duty bateries lasted half as long as my alkaline batteries. I wanted to know if anyone else has the same results from useing these types of batteries. Any input is welcomed please!

 

[williB]

why not use rechargeable ones..

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I was wondering what other people think about those "Heavy Duty" Batteries. I have found personally that Alkaline Batteries far out perform "Heavy Duty" batteries. I think if i remember correctly that the Heavy duty bateries lasted half as long as my alkaline batteries. I wanted to know if anyone else has the same results from useing these types of batteries. Any input is welcomed please!

'Heavy Duty' batteries are absolute rubbish!, they don't compare to alkaline at all, the 'heavy duty' part is in comparison to even more rubbishy non-alkaline ones. Check the graphs of tests I did some years ago at **broken link removed** - you'll never buy a non-alkaline battery again :lol:

 

[williB]

Cool i've never seen them graphed side by side like that..
i wonder how NiMHs would do..?

 

[audioguru]

Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the great battery comparison. Today's alkaline cells are even better.

Hi Willi,
Today's rechargeable Ni-MH cells have about the same capacity per charge as today's alkaline cells. But I wouldn't use them in an emergency flashlight (torch?) that is tucked away in a drawer, since they self-discharge in a month or two. The alkaline cells that I bought yesterday have a "best before" date of 2011.
You ain't seen nuthin' yet! I recently did a survey for Energizer's new AA lithium cells. They claim that they can take 568 pictures in a digital camera, while "ordinary" alkaline cell take only 70 pics. Of course the lithium cells cost a lot more but not as much as their value. Look at the voltage on the discharge graph, ruler flat. Click on "Technical Info":
www.energizer.com

 

[williB]

hi Audioguru,
these lithium cells are rechargeable?
i would imagine

 

[audioguru]

Hi Willi,
Just read the datasheet. No, they are not rechargeable, they are used one time then thrown away.
Rechargeable lithium battery cells usually have a falling voltage with discharge, starting at about 3.5V and ending at about 2.5V. If you discharge them more they are ruined. Charging them is difficult too. Overcharging them will cause damage and they get so hot they might catch fire.
My son recently took apart the worn-out rechargeable lithium battery from his laptop computer. It is jammed full of thermal sensors, ICs and other stuff for protection.

 

[williB]

Whoever designed their site should be forced to listen to 24 hours of energizer bunny commercials..
it stinks..
i am going to run an expiriment tonight ..
to get data from 2 NiMH batteries...
graphing it will be tough though..

 

[audioguru]

Hi Willi,
You don't trust the bunny's datasheet graphs of their Ni-MH cells on Energizer's website?
Watch out for the index page of the technical stuff. Their alkaline cells have an inflated mA/hr number by allowing them to discharge to a ridiculously low 0.8V.

 

[Oznog]

"Heavy Duty" batteries are carbon cells. They are much lower capacity and current delivery capabilities.

They have only two useful properties. They self-discharge at a low rate, lower than alkalines, or at least they used to. So for a device which is stored for a long time, they might last longer. Second, they're lighter, although in terms of power-to-weight ratio I think they're still lower.[/quote]

 

[Juglenaut]

Industrial batteries are the same as HD ones, so I was told.

NiMh cells have a huge capacity, higher voltage over the cell. The comparison I did with high drain motors showed matched NiMh batteries to have comparable rated amperage over its drain curve to unmatched nicads, however Nicads that are matched and top quality like SCRC or better have an impressive amperage rating and predictable dump cycle.

Where as NiMh fails is heat the cells can't get as hot as Nicads, NiMh cells must be charged half way before storing otherwise it is a pain to cycle them out the next year. While nicads are discharging the amp draw is linear to a point where as NiMh fail because as the cells heat the amperage drops more so over the same temp as nicads. I would drop every NiMh for a good set of high capacity nicads any day for reliability.

All in all NiMh arn't bad they can be used in moderate draining devices and last longer than any nicad since they have a larger capacity. There is as a draw back as NiMh cell don't last as long as nicads, it took me 4 years to figure that out as I still have a SCE nicad pack that still runs like I bought it where as my NiMh failed after 2 years of abuse.

Lithiums are high capacity low current in porportion to voltage devices.

 

[audioguru]

Do you think you will get more capacity if you replaced Energizer's AA Ni-MH cells with their much larger and more expensive D cells? No way, man!
Their D cell is just a big can with a little AA cell inside. Look at the datasheets, same spec's.

I just noticed that Energizer is owned by a razor-blade manufacturer. Duracell is owned by the other razor-blade manufacturer. Funny.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the great battery comparison. Today's alkaline cells are even better.

I've often thought of redoing the tests, as they were done a LONG time ago - using a Pascal program running in DOS!. It's all a question of getting around to it :lol:

 

[mynamerox]

I found out the hard way with the Heavy Duty batteries. I was wondering why I kept replacing the battery in my MP3 player. I read the instructions and when it said it got 12 hrs of battery life I was curious why i was only getting two hours. After investing way too much money in heavy duty batteries I decided to try alkaline and sure enough it got at least 4 times the power if not more. All I can say is that you get what you pay for with heavy duty batteries. I am not a fan of rechargeable since I am always running around and I can always just go to the store and get new ones when needed.

 

[Juglenaut]

It saves money especially if you have alot of high draining devices like small digital cameras, wireless mouse, lot of remotes, radio control transmitter, MP3 player, CD player, Flashlighs, and the list goes on..Overall any rechargable nicad or NiMh will save itself and more over its lifetime.

where 2 decent sanyo NiCads cost me 5.99 (for 2 packs less for more qty) and last 5k+ charges, and 2 energizer or duracell AAs at 1.99 (at a convenience store) take that times 5k charges !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and all you would have spent was about 75 dollars to set yourself up with a good flow of charged batteries, Nicads have a better hold over time charge, and life expectancy.

Although I use NiMh cells only in devices I use constantly, and keep only about 6 extra with 4 in charger, I have 24 AAs, 4 AAAs, 4 D's in NiMh, in Nicad I have 64 AA's, 12 AAA's, 18 C's, 8 D's. All sanyo. I also have several unassembled sub-c cells and some sub-d cells laying around, both are very high mah ratings.

To get you started finding nicads cheap I will point you here although I rarly goto them anymore for batteries.

www.Towerhobbies.com

 

[williB]

Whoever designed their site should be forced to listen to 24 hours of energizer bunny commercials..
it stinks..
i am going to run an expiriment tonight ..
to get data from 2 NiMH batteries...
graphing it will be tough though..

well i did that
got the graph
i used a resistor as i did not have a flashlight bulb to use..
it was a strange looking curve though..
i will try to transport it onto this machine to show yall ..

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Whoever designed their site should be forced to listen to 24 hours of energizer bunny commercials..
it stinks..
i am going to run an expiriment tonight ..
to get data from 2 NiMH batteries...
graphing it will be tough though..

well i did that
got the graph
i used a resistor as i did not have a flashlight bulb to use..
it was a strange looking curve though..
i will try to transport it onto this machine to show yall ..

NiMh should be similar to NiCd and Alkaline, with a gradual drop off followed by a very quick fall at the end.

I did my tests years ago, but using a torch bulb as a load, this is far more representative than a simple resistor - as it's a common application for the batteries (which was why I used it!). Plus it also gives a nice visual indication of the state of charge :lol:

BTW, what value resistor did you use?.

 

[williB]

I think i used three 10 Ohm resistors in parallel

 

[audioguru]

Unlike your tests with a continuous load, a battery's charge lasts longer when used intermittently, with a rest period between uses, which is how they are actually used:
1) I'm in the dark at the top of a ladder and my flashlight's Ni-Cad's fade to nothing. If I wait with it off for a couple of minutes, it gives enough light to see my way down.
2) I left the lights turned-on on my car overnight. The next morning the lights are dim and the engine won't start. If I leave it with everything turned-off for about a half-hour, then it starts fine.

I suppose the battery needs time to recombine gasses that build up.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Unlike your tests with a continuous load, a battery's charge lasts longer when used intermittently, with a rest period between uses, which is how they are actually used:

How they are actually used obviously varies from application to application, continuous use of a torch is a quite likely application.

But as far as doing battery tests goes, you simply need to use a standard system to compare between different batteries. Intermittent tests will make batteries last considerably longer, but you would need to accurately specify the time intervals, and it would probably give advantages to one specific battery. Not to mention the time involved?, loading the battery for 10 minutes every day would take weeks (months?) to complete the test, and not really achieve a great deal.

As I see it, using a perfectly normal application (like a torch bulb) gives a fairly short time for the tests, and a true comparison of their capacity. Obviously other 'normal' loads could be used, but you need something reliable and consistant (so a radio, with it's varying current demands, wouldn't be suitable) - and also something that gives a fairly high current drain, to make the time taken for the test reasonably short. AA batteries are commonly used in clocks, and it's a good consistent current drain - but the time taken for the tests would be a little excessive :lol: