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Hardware RNG (measures AC mains chaos to make random numbers)

Discussion in 'Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews' started by Mr RB, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. ()blivion

    ()blivion Active Member

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    LOL yeah, as shown it would be impractical to build. But remember as I said before, that is just a reduced circuit model. It has the same properties as a delay line, so can be used in simulation in place of one. In real life you would most likely use a thin magnet wire wrapped around a grounded iron former about a billion times, then tap it at different points. This creates the exact same circuit as shown, only with infinite inductors and capacitors. Or just use a piezo delay line.

    The important thing to note is that neither delay line will have one main frequency it would prefer to oscillate on, and it won't filter out any particular frequency's. This is because in the above version the inductors and capacitors are not discrete units, but spread out linearly over the length of the delay line. This property is important for my version of a Chaoscillator as it creates the sensitive analog memory needed for the butterfly effect to take place.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  2. Mr RB

    Mr RB Well-Known Member

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    Sorry WTP_Pepper I have no idea which part of my post you are referring to, or which circuit and which capacitors?

    Yeah that's a good point. I think in that case I would look at using software to store the tens or hundreds of stages (ie make the "delay line" part in digital) but still using some analog (like some RCs) to provide some of the delay, phase change etc that feeds in as part of the overal process. Of course it's not the same thing as your analog design, just something using delays as part of the overall process, and "cheating" by using software so provide a lot of the complexity and only a few simple hardware parts. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  3. WTP Pepper

    WTP Pepper Active Member

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    Post #95

    View attachment 67287
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Mr RB

    Mr RB Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this helps? From his same web page I linked to above;

    [​IMG]

    Those are just his "simplified integrator blocks". I'm still unsure of your point, but his "integrator block" has one input and one output, and the simplified diagram in your post #103 above still looks very closed-loop to me?
     
  6. WTP Pepper

    WTP Pepper Active Member

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    I have never seen an integrator drawn as in #95, but understand what's posted above.
    Thanks for the explanation.
     
  7. ()blivion

    ()blivion Active Member

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    I have to agree. That is quite an odd way to do it.
     
  8. Mr RB

    Mr RB Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for sure, it looks like he has very deliberately tried to reproduce certain mathematical relationships but in hardware.

    Personally I would have worked to smash up the math relationships to make it as random as possible, but his goal was to produce pleasing patterns for sound generation not just to produce some random data with high entropy, which is probably an easier task than the clever stuff he has accomplished. :)
     
  9. WTP Pepper

    WTP Pepper Active Member

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    I think I have come up with the world's most truely random number generator after doing a fair bit of driving recently and radio station flicking to find something vaguely interesting to listen to.

    It's not electronically based, not based on physical random events, but.......

    Based on the diatribe radio "Jocks" / "DJs" talk about. I have never heard such random rubbish interjected with words they couldn't even spell, subjects they know nothing about and the odd "Yo bruvvar", "Chill Man" and "innit" intertwines. Truely random Sh*te. A RNG regularly re-seeded by phone calls from similar single cell organisms with a limited but random keyspace.:D
     
  10. Mr RB

    Mr RB Well-Known Member

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    I gave up listening to radio DJs many years ago. They're forced to play particular songs/labels etc which is propaganda of it's own, with more hypey progaganga on top in an attempt to push particular products/music and then they heap all that fake "street cred" crap on top of that!

    Make a nice mix CD of your favorite music (without the end of every song cut off by shitty radio advertising)... It will be far less random but sometimes less random can be best! ;)
     

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