giant EMP.. hoax or real?

[SsgKen]

Not that I am worried but will a high altitude bomb put out an EMP that will knock us back to the stone age?

If true, what steps can be taken?

 

[e44-72]

Its unlikely that will ever happen

 

[jpanhalt]

Nah, we will never get back to the stone age. Government regulations won't allow us to use things with that much mercury, lead, and asbestos.

John

 

[alec_t]

If true, what steps can be taken?

Large ones.....away from ground zero

 

[cowboybob]

Large ones.....away from ground zero

Chortle...

Although.

We've still got a large Naval Weapons Station about 15 miles from my house. Lots of things that make VERY large booms (and EMPs, as it is).

Thus, we are for sure targeted.

When I worked on the nuke boats (which got their goodies from said station), I actually took comfort in the proximity.

I here to stay.

Who would want to be around if the balloon goes up, anyway??...

Just to hedge my bets, ALL my ham gear is tube-type. Small comfort, maybe, but a lot hardier that solid state.

 

[Steaphany]

First off, the phenomenon of an Electromagnetic Pulse, EMP produced by the high altitude detonation of an atomic weapon is real and was first observed in 1958 when a nuclear weapon was launched on a missile from an island in the Pacific Ocean. I have never sought out the research to determine if the EMP was theorized prior to the 1958 tests, but a later series of high altitude atomic weapon tests were done to specifically study the effects in 1962. EMP is just one of several phenomena that data was collected for.

If you are concerned over the potential damage that an EMP can cause, instead of atomic weapons, I suggest that you learn to pay closer attention to the Sun and the effects of a Coronal Mass Ejection which, like an atomic weapon detonation, sends high energy charged particles into the Earth's Magnetosphere and has the potential of generating an EMP of far greater intensity than anything we could initiate. The worse part of a Coronal Mass Ejection EMP is that these are natural phenomena with the potential of occurring at almost any time.

The effect of an EMP is actually quite simple, as the EMP wave passes across a conductor, a voltage potential is generated that can reach into several kilovolts per meter of conductor length. Any electronics subjected to an EMP experiences severe high voltage stress, often capable of destroying semiconductors. The power grid, with miles of above ground transmission lines can experience megavolt spikes capable of destroying huge areas of the power grid and, obviously, any subscribers electronics connected to it.

To protect electronics from the effects of an EMP depend on several factors. First off, turning off the equipment, as often done in numerous SciFi's will provide no protection. An AC powered device will have a greater chance of surviving if it is not connected to utility power. But, remember that even the short traces of a PCB in a battery powered device can experience damaging potentials. If at all possible, store electronic equipment in Faraday cage enclosures. If you have the ability to install a Faraday cage in your lab, containing the entire room or building, then your beginning to achieve DoD scale EMP protection methods. ( My home was built with sheet metal in the walls, so I live in a Faraday cage, the kook that built it was trying for tornado proof ) Do keep in mind that if you build a Faraday cage shielded room, any conductors entering the space from the out side unshielded environment can bring in damaging potentials. For data lines, fiber optic cables are fine. For power, you can have your power source contained within your Faraday cage, or you can use an electric motor - generator to provide an electrical isolation with a mechanical linkage from unshielded into your shielded space. If you like antique electronics, tubes, these devices can easily withstand exposure to an EMP with out damage.

Irregardless of your own EMP protection efforts, a naturally occurring EMP could still destroy the surrounding technological environment leaving you to be the only one with a working computer and electronics lab in your neighborhood.

 

[Sceadwian]

Nah, we will never get back to the stone age. Government regulations won't allow us to use things with that much mercury, lead, and asbestos.

This is one of my favorite posts in recent memory, I'd have laughed out loud but the irony of it was so palatable it kept the humor in check.

Irregardless of your own EMP protection efforts, a naturally occurring EMP could still destroy the surrounding technological environment leaving you to be the only one with a working computer and electronics lab in your neighborhood.

I doubt the practical possibility of that scenario. Even at close range EMP's can only destroy sensitive non-hardened equipment. There are experimental EMP grenades that I've heard of, but the physical damage to the surrounding environment is actually worse than the pure electrical risk.

If you want to blow something up there are better ways than an EMP, even if the target is electronic. No known or foreseeable technique for the creation of an EMP that has less direct effect on it's environment and great impact on the electrical one has ever been proven to be feasible on any level.

The current solar cycle will be peaking in the next 5 years... We're under the gun directly, and it's going to be a whole lot of nothing.

 

[dr peppers]

The UK has those kind of weapons too.
There are various sizes, I think mainly they are used for taking out military installations and convoys rather than attacking the public.
I'm not an expert on such devices however they tend to use explosive techniques to produce the pulse so an emp bomb big enough to take out a city would probably do quite a bit of blast damage too.

 

[Dean Huster]

A fairly recent novel, fiction based on a good amount of reality, One Second After, is a conceivable vision of what an EMP could do to a civilization. Probable or not, it's interesting.

 

[Mr RB]

The thing with EMP science fiction (and most science fiction for that matter!) is that the real world is very different. For pulses to destroy equipment there is a huge factor of chance. As a TV repairer I've seen a HV lead come off the flyback and dance around the main PCB throwing multi kV arcs to the components on the PCB, then connected it up properly and the TV worked without fault.

EMP can destroy some equipment, especially receivers with antennas, but this whole idea that every device everywhere will be destroyed is pure bunkum! It's just not that easy to destroy devices from a distance with EM energy especially as distances get larger and there are things in metal enclosures or near or behind something metal.

And the majority of things "destroyed" will just have some parts blown in the front end (tuner etc) like the countless appliances I've fixed easily, that were blown from lightning strikes etc. Now a lightning strike on
the power wires right outside your house is destructive, but even then only a few items in the house are "destroyed". I saw a lot of customers that had a bad lightning strike, but it only killed one appliance in their whole house.

 

[SsgKen]

thank you

I never was really worried about a bomb, just curious. I would not want to prepare for that.

I think we are in more danger from the sun as in several sunspots. One in 1859 fried the telegraphs in much of the USA.

 

[dr peppers]

Romans right, most of what we see of emp's is from hyped up films made to make money not be realistic.

I have been round the marconi plant where they make equipment for fighter planes, some of the gear is hardened to emp, looking at the boxes they are in they'd also be hardened to attack by sledgehammer, ally cases about 2" thick.
Military equipment is much more likely to be attacked which is why they go to the extent.

If a rogue government decided they were going to attck us, or you guys they probably wouldnt attack joe public, they'd probably deploy a device over a telephone exchange or a power station, somewhere were taking out as much electronic gear as possible would cause the most havoc, nearly everones telly would be no good without power.

 

[jpanhalt]

As for going back to the Stone Age as SsgKen asked, I do not think that is possible without something akin to a mass genetic mutation of every living human.

Whatever spark created civilizations cannot be easily erased. Even if we lost all of our electronics, we would at worst be in something like the beginning of the industrial revolution.

As for a huge EMP, wouldn't those on the other side of the earth be spared?

John

 

[SsgKen]

As for a huge EMP, wouldn't those on the other side of the earth be spared?

John

Good point. It may hit the other side of the Earth and not bother us at all. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Super_Flare

 

[Sceadwian]

I think we are in more danger from the sun as in several sunspots. One in 1859 fried the telegraphs in much of the USA.[.quote]

We've discovered a large amount about electricity since 1859 and the systems in use are to say the least drastically different. The world has already been the target of a pretty decent sized sun flare in the last few weeks and another one is on the way I believe, we've known this solar cycle has been coming for a VERY long time and trust me precautions have been taken. Certainly some effects will be noticed but I'd avoid the pessimistic short term views and just sit it out and see what really happens.

There's nothing fundamemental that's been missed in fact I think it's a GREAT thing to be happening right now because it will put industry on high alert on what the effects are and how to cope with any problems that will arise in the next cycle 11 years from now. Every solar scientist on this planet right now is drooling like you would not believe just waiting instruments deployed for the data to come streaming in, the impact on the human race at large doesn't seem to currently have any reason for fear, it's just going to be a great learning situation.

 

[unclejed613]

EMP from nuclear weapons (i.e. maximizing EMP to cripple a nation's infrastructure) is a "special case". the weapon has to be detonated above the stratosphere, and have a high gamma ray yield. it's unlikely anybody except a technologically advanced nation (like china or russia) could actually get a bomb above the stratosphere to maximize it's EMP effects. for more info on how EMP is generated and propagated, look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

while some limited EMP effects are generated by a nuclear bomb, those effects are very localized for surface blasts. the use of a bomb for primarily generating EMP requires it be set off at a high altitude (100 miles or so)

 

[johansen]

meh, i'd rather not take my chances and say i'd be ok when there's electric fields on the order of 50KV/meter with 10nS rise times showing up at the front door.

I don't expect any electronics to survive the EMP blast of a nuclear weapon.
The Russians did some testing on that. Nothing survived. telegraph lines buried three feet deep were Fused. the gas tubes every 5km were also vaporized.

I've done some extensive reading on hardening facilites to EMP, the cheapest way is to bury the whole facility. due to the high frequency component of the strongest pulse if you're at least 10 feet below the ground you're fine.
Other than that you have to have 10 or 12 gauge seamless steel surrounding the building. the doors should be made with copper mesh bladders that are pressurized with air to make the connection when the door is closed.
If you don't want to take your chances at all you need two doors, one is always closed and they have to be far enough apart not to make a resonant cavity when you open the outside door, lest a bomb go off while the outer door is open.

Today however there's electronic methods to generate 50kv with 1ns rise times a lot cheaper than there was back in 1940, and as a result there are commercial products that claim to be EMP proof. i don't know if they are affordable though. and even if they do work there's no guarantee the cabling on the emp side of the arrestor survived.

 

[alec_t]

I have this vision of folk clanking about in suits of armour.....

 

[Mikebits]

The solution is simple.

View attachment 62389

 

[dr peppers]

Toasted kitty eh.

Seems we like talking doom and gloom.

Does anyone have any experience of these mini hand held emp's, sort of an emp ray gun point and shoot, sounds like maybe a ultracap and a winding.

Theres even a hobby shop for buying the bits:

https://www.amazing1.com/emp.htm