Astronomy

[ronsimpson]

Yes, I know what the Doppler effect does. Please explain how the"Doppler Effect" (as applied to stars), on average, produces the motion of stars. Try being a Man not a boy or a women, thank you. Copernicus1234.

The Doppler effect does not effect the motion of stars.
The notion of start produce a Doppler effect.

When a train is coming closer the sound is higher frequency than when the train is going away.
Same thing with stars. (not sound but light)

 

[copernicus1234]

The motion of the universe is being represented with the red shift but the red shift is formed by the earth's daily and yearly motions, not the motion of the celestial universe since all star are forming both the red and blue shifts. Also, perhaps the sun is stationary. Where did you get those pixs of the solar wind? The same place where you got the Milky Way pixs?

 

[ronsimpson]

You keep repeating

The motion of the universe is being represented with the red shift but the red shift is formed by the earth's daily and yearly motions, not the motion of the celestial universe

I have given you numbers that show this is not the case.

perhaps the sun is stationary

The Doppler effect is produced by the difference in speed. As I have said before. It does not matter if the sun is moving or not. Everything is relative.

If you are on a train that is traveling north at 100km/hr. And you run toward the back of the train at 10km/hr you will hear the train whistle going away at 10km/hr. The 100km/hr is not important.

 

[cowboybob]

Yes, I know what the Doppler effect does. Please explain how the"Doppler Effect" (as applied to stars), on average, produces the motion of stars. ...

Please add to your understanding of the Doppler effect that it does not produce motion.

Any motion of an object is due to factors utterly unrelated to the Doppler effect.

It is, simply, an exploitable phenomena of the effect that a differential motion (of one body relative to another) has on an emitted, wave-like energy.

As an aside, personal comments concerning members (other than yourself) have no place in this forum.

 

[copernicus1234]

ronsimpson.....Do the celestial star form both the red and blue shift or only the red shift? Also, where did you get those pixs of the Milky Way?

"If you are on a train that is traveling north at 100km/hr. And you run toward the back of the train at 10km/hr you will hear the train whistle going away at 10km/hr. The 100km/hr is not important." (ronsimpson).

Answer by Copernicus: It seem your contradicting yourself. Please explain what you are saying. I'm completely lost, in your argument, sorry.

cowboybob...........You're being a silly.

The motion of the universe is being represented with the red shift but the red shift is formed by the earth's daily and yearly motions, not the motion of the celestial universe since all star are forming both the red and blue shifts. ronsimpson you have only

 

[cowboybob]

...The motion of the universe is being represented with the red shift but the red shift is formed by the earth's daily and yearly motions, not the motion of the celestial universe since all star are forming both the red and blue shifts. ...

My emphsis.

The stars are not "forming" any color shifts. Their motion, relative to us (the viewers), is causing the color shift of the spectrum of light they are emitting.

If a star is moving away from us, its color spectrum shifts towards the red. If that same star is moving towards us, its color spectrum is shifting towards the blue.

Perhaps this site will help you: https://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/doppler.htm

NO star's emitted spectrum can possibly shift towards the red AND the blue region of its spectrum simultaneously. That would imply that it is capable of simultaneously moving away AND towards us, a physical impossibility.

These celestial spectrum shifts occur, for all intents and purposes, irrespective of our motion around the Sun.

 

[ronsimpson]

Pictures: I typed "galaxy pictures" into yahoo.com search.

"If you are on a train that is traveling north at 100km/hr. And you run toward the back of the train at 10km/hr you will hear the train whistle going away at 10km/hr. The 100km/hr is not important."

Because I can not explain how light works very well I tried to move over to sound. Hopefully you have heard the sound of a train horn. (car horn)

If the train is coming toward you it sounds higher. train)f
If the train is going away the sound is lower.
You can hear this effect by standing near a train, at the crossing.

This effect also works if the train is not moving but you are driving a can toward or away from a train.

differential motion! (from CowBoyBob)

Because we cannot know if our sun is moving, we can not know if the other sun is moving. We can see the effect of "getting closer or farther away".
To explain this; I used the running on a train story.
If we are going 1,000,000 and the other sun is also going 1,000,000 in the same direction there will be no color shift. 1,000,000-1,000,000=0
**broken link removed**

 

[copernicus1234]

The celestial universe, from our prespective on the earth, is stationary. Example, on January 23, at 12 am, if one takes an astronomic pix of the celestial universe, at a set given angle, the same exact pix can be obtain every year, for the next hundred years; therefore, for experimental justifaction the celsestial universe in stationary. The motion of the celestial universe is being represented with the red shift but the red shift is formed by the earth's daily and yearly motions, not the motion of the celestial universe since all star are forming both the red and blue shifts. Also, did yahoo build a space ship and capture this extrodinary pix of the universe (you fell into my trap). Please send me a pix of this extremely extrodinary yahoo space ship. Thank you for your interesting posts. I will speak for Yahoo if you plan to apply to be a crew member on their next fight. Na Nu Na and may the force be with you. Altar's Hammer!

 

[ronsimpson]

The motion of the celestial universe is being represented with the red shift but the red shift is formed by the earth's daily and yearly motions, not the motion of the celestial universe since all star are forming both the red and blue shifts.

Please show me how this is true. The earth's speed is so small compared to the rest of the universe's movement.

We know that pic is made up. It is based off of other galaxies that are of the same shape.

 

[cowboybob]

The motion exhibited by the Sun and planets of our solar system are obvious and the Earth's rotation and its orbit around our Sun are, of course, critical to our existense.
On the other hand, the presence or absence of motion in our galaxy, or the presence or absence of motion of other galaxies is, essentially, irrelevant to our everyday lives.
If you choose to believe that no such motion exists, fine.
But you will never convince me that no such motion exists as, apparently I will never convince you that is does.
Such is the nature of debate based on denial.

 

[steveB]

Such is the nature of debate based on denial.

Yes. Real debate can only occur with opposing views that are in doubt. When one side takes a position that is disproved by a mountain of experimental data, that is indeed "denial" in it's worst form. I don't understand these people that want to go back to centuries old theories that were disproved so long ago.

Of course our present scientific view of the world is always debatable. That is the very nature of science, - to debate and question whether what we believe is the real truth. But, that does not mean that old theories that are completely inconsistent with observations and experiments belong in such debates. By all means, others should propose new theories or extensions to existing theories, but they have the burden of proof on them to show what they are proposing is consistent with experiments and observations.

Notice that Copernicus1234 has this burden of proof when he opposes existing theories that are consistent with observation, yet he offers no data, numbers, pictures or anything else of substance. We only have his troll-like statements that amount to basically saying that what he says is right and the existing theories that have stood up to the rigorous scientific process, and have survived, should be ignored on his word.

In a word … nonsense!

 

[copernicus1234]

ronsimpson............"We know that pic is made up. It is based off of other galaxies that are of the same shape."

Copernicus1234:>>What do mean by made up, like pro wrestling or like Puff (magic dragon).

ronsimpson.............."Please show me how this is true. The earth's speed is so small compared to the rest of the universe's movement."

Copernicus1234:>>According to your calculations, from a point on the surface of the earth, the approximate velocity is Mach 4, at 12:00 am (midnight).

 

[ronsimpson]

ronsimpson............"We know that pic is made up. It is based off of other galaxies that are of the same shape."

Copernicus1234:>>What do mean by made up, like pro wrestling or like Puff (magic dragon).

Made up like maps and globes are made up. Globes have been made long before anyone went out into space and took a picture. I suspect that each country is not made of a different color of dirt. The last time I crossed a border there way no black line between countries. Made up; my map shows all small towns are small start. The size of the star represents how many 1000 people live there. I am pretty sure that small roads are black but large roads are not red. I have a made up maps that shows the USA is the center of the world. I have seen very old (made up) maps that show Rome is the center of the world.

Made up; there is no big yellow arrow pointing to your sun. Every one knows it is green.

Made up; There are inferred telescopes and X-ray telescopes and (many different kinds). Your eye can not see any of that. So they make up a picture, using light you can see.

A 1000 years ago you could get killed for having a globe. "The church" said that the earth is flat, Maps are flat, there fore the earth is flat. People that make up globes went to hell fire. The church believed that dragons walk on a flat earth. (Puff magic dragon) Now the more enlightened church thinks the center of the universe is earth. Earth is 6000 years old. Scientists have make up stars and dinosaur bones . It does not make sense that light has traveled 1,000,000 years to get here when the stars are 6000 years old. There fore astronomy is made up.

What does "make up" mean?
My ideas, including god and pro wrestling, are real! It is your ideas that are made up. ......lol

 

[tvtech]

Copernicus1234 is Trolling.

Let him be Ron . Don't feed him.

Regards,
tvtech

 

[ronsimpson]

Wise words. It is hard for me to not go for the bate.

 

[tcmtech]

"Copernicus1234 is Trolling."

He's not even doing that correctly.

 

[copernicus1234]

ronsimpson..................before I can answer your question regarding the meaning of "made up", I must know if the celestial universe, from our prespective on the earth, is stationary or in motion because the galaxy pix is based (made up) on the red shift, correct? Also, aren't there millions of star in the Milky Way galaxy and the star that we see, with the eye, of the celestial universe, are only part of the Milky Way, right. And what God pray tell is the length of the Milky Way, 100 light years ? And what is the distant to the closest star, Alfa Centuri, 4.2 light years?

I don't see how you don't get it?

ronsimpson.... when you were little did you try to using a Sear and Roebuck microscope to find subatomic particles? Daddy, Daddy look what I found.

Also, isn't there a possiblity that modern man is no better then the church 1000 years ago. Look at Maxwell's EM theory of light. Maxwell uses Ampere and Faraday induction experiments to represents light yet induction is not optical, isn't that the same as believing that the earth is flat or that the earth is the center of the universe. How about steveB argument that Maxwell equations are not vector equations. Not much different from the church saying people whom own globes are evil. ...........>>>

Hey ronsimpson could you ask NASA the best value of the earth's daily and yearly motion's velocity, and if NASA uses a celestial universe that is in motion to navigate. Na Nu Na Nu....May the Force be with you.... the Grabthar's Hammer...........stevenB master debator

 

[ronsimpson]

Copernicus1234 is Trolling.
Let him be Ron . Don't feed him.

TV Tech, Well I got him revved up now. Sorry about that.
TCM Tech, Its your turn. Say something about black helicopters.
Copernicus1234, good thing you edited out a section. It was classic. Every time someone wants to play god, "if I was god", and remove all people that understand science, then we are headed back into another dark age.

 

[JimB]

Come on guys, get a grip on reality, this thread is going down hill fast.

JimB

 

[cowboybob]

I agree, JimB.

Ain't no elucidation happenin' here...