220v to 12 V for a big load winch

[Boris@sandy-beach-resort]

Hi everybody,
I am not only new here but have little to no clue about electrics/electronics, but a question, where I am hoping to get some ideas/answers.
I have purchased a winch enabling me to pull our boat on a trailer in and out of the water on a ramp. The winch requires 12V and I would like to see whether it is possible/feasible to work with installed main power of 220V rather then having a big battery standing around. The question would be what type of transformer would I need ??
The winch is specified here : https://www.runva-winch-cn.com/offroad-winches/9603681.html
I don't have a clue which numbers are important for this project and which aren't and I am hoping to get some help....
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Boris

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

At full power, that's 450 Amps. So, a better idea of the power required would help. How much pull?
The table says 17,500 lbs of pull at 450 amps. Then there's friction and the angle. The weight of the boat is a good starting point.

So, why can't you use the vehicle's battery?

I "quickly" found a 200 A supply at https://www.kikusuiamerica.com/product/detail.php?IdFamily=0005
but it won't come cheap.

I would THINK that you could wire an Anderson Power connector e.g. **broken link removed** in such a way that you can connect the battery to the winch. i.e. You permanently wire the connectors in the vehicle.

1) Create a set that goes to your vehicle
2) Create another set with jumper cables. (The less safe way).

I'm not saying I have all of the answers.

I've only dealt with 3000 Amp 6V AC power before. The "wire" was solid copper bars.

 

[Les Jones]

The input power rating of the 12 volt unit on your link is 5.4KW This is 450 amps at 12 volts. You would need a transformer with this rating and a bridge rectifier. This would probably be larger than the battery that you use at the moment. It will also be more expensive than buying a 240- volt (Assuming you location is europe as you have not given it your profile.) winch I switch mode power supply power supply would be smaller than using a mains frequency transformer but I have never seen one with such a high current rating.

Les.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

The input power rating of the 12 volt unit on your link is 5.4KW This is 450 amps at 12 volts.

Remember - load dependent.

 

[Boris@sandy-beach-resort]

Thank you both for your input and valuable ideas. The reason why I was interested in a different solution was that I do not live in Germany but on a smal island in the South pacific (**broken link removed**) and Iwas hoping that I could save having to deal with mire batteries. However, I think I will need to get back to the most easy solution and buy a few fat car batteries and forget the idea of a more sophisticated solution. I haven't found 220/240 V winches that can pull 5-6 tonnes ... at least not at a reasonable price and size !
Than you both for your input and cheers
Boris

 

[jpanhalt]

Have you considered a small diesel motor-generator set? Alternatively, a large 220V AC motor could run the generator. A 24-volt aircraft generator from surplus might suffice. They used to be quite inexpensive.

Another thing to consider with your first plan is the distance from your 220V source to your converter to your winch. If the distance from the converter to winch is long, say more than 50 ft, you will have a lot invested in the cables to carry that current.

Third, you could rebuild or build anew a winch run with a 220V AC motor. Critical part is getting a drive motor with a suitable worm-gear reduction unit. Here is one I built many years ago. You can see the back of the motor. The worm gear is on the right base and is driven by a V-belt from the motor. That gear unit uses a chain drive to the winch drum and is visible. The top far right is a limit switch. The frame is just a couple of pieces of structural steel. The drum was fabricated from some pipe.

John

 

[Mikebits]

Thank you both for your input and valuable ideas. The reason why I was interested in a different solution was that I do not live in Germany but on a smal island in the South pacific (**broken link removed**) and Iwas hoping that I could save having to deal with mire batteries. However, I think I will need to get back to the most easy solution and buy a few fat car batteries and forget the idea of a more sophisticated solution. I haven't found 220/240 V winches that can pull 5-6 tonnes ... at least not at a reasonable price and size !
Than you both for your input and cheers
Boris

For some reason I got this feeling I just viewed an advertisement for a beach resort. Is it just me?

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Motor/generator thing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/C-E-Niehof...litary-Generator-with-Regulator-/170729289827, but that's only part of it. But 28 V, not 12. You need higher than 25 to charge a 24 V battery, hence 28.

 

[JimB]

Another thing to consider, if you do find a suitable transformer/power supply to run the winch from 220volts, the 220volts supply will need to supply about 25 amps at the full rated load.
Can your 220v main supply provide that much current?

JimB

 

[MikeMl]

I'm using a similar winch to raise/lower my 55ft (formerly crank-up) telescoping radio tower. It weighs 630 lbs (static) plus the weight of the rotor and antennas (another 150 lbs). I just use a retired car battery (good enough to raise/lower the tower, but not good enough to reliably start a car) that I keep on a $30 smart charger. Even if I have to buy a new battery every five years or so, that is $20 per year for the battery, and $30 one-time for the charger...

 

[spec]

...buy a few fat car batteries...

Hi Boris,

just a word of caution about using car (auto) batteries to power your winch. Car batteries are not designed for that job and would not last very long. Instead you need deep discharge batteries which are typically used on boats and campers.

That aside, it would seem to me that Mike's approach above in post #10 has a lot going for it. You could even use a 100A battery charger which are freely available and not that expensive.

spec

PS: what a fantastic place you live at

 

[ronsimpson]

Boris,

I find that automotive winches are rated at how big a boat they can pull on a trailer, not on how much they can lift. Or at least my winch will not lift what it is rated for.
Automotive winches are rated for intermittent use. They will not work all day long. They will get HOT.
I would get a car battery and a good charger that can be left on the battery all the time. (trickle charge mode)
With a 30A charger and 300A draw from the winch you can't use the winch more than 8% of the time. But that is probably what the winch can do with out over heating.

Ron

 

[gary350]

What is your 240 volt power source?

Buy a heavy duty 12 volt battery charger. Automotive charges go up to 100 and 200 amps 12v. Industrial battery chargers go much higher 10,000. amps.

If you need a portable power supply buy a 240 volt generator.

There are 12 volt DC gas and diesel generators available too but not at any local store I know about. Check McMaster Carr. Try W.W. Grainger. Try MSC industrial supply. Call (615) 893-0542 I bet they can get you a 12v DC generator.

You will need a large filter capacitor for the generator DC.

 

[tcmtech]

More realistically given the short duty cycles and odds that you won't be running the winch at 100% capacity for more than a few seconds I would recomend finding what is more commonly called a Buck Boost transformer.

Ones capable of handling 3+ KW continuous and overloads of double that for several minutes at a time without damage are fairly cheap and easy to find. eBay has many in the 3 - 4 KVA range for well under $250.

Add a set of welder rectifier diodes with a 500+ amp rating and you have a basic but extremely rugged high current power supply that will work very well for low voltage high current motor applications that's DIY buildable for less than $350.

 

[Mikebits]

I guess I have become cynical in my old age, I think the OP (AKA Boris, also Owner of Sandy Beach resort) accomplished his goal, (Advertise his resort) under the ruse of a need for electronics help needed, so I do not expect any further response from the OP. Quite clever actually.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am, and who am I to stop free enterprise?

 

[tcmtech]

Okay so he put how much effort into advertising to what? A dozen or so people of which until you pointed out his name I didn't even look at who the guy was.

He would get better traffic for his efforts if he just spray painted his name on a piece of cardboard and staked it at the corner of most any intersection he could find within walking distance of his house.

 

[Mikebits]

Perhaps... Like I said, I must be getting cynical. If that is the right word.