Wringing Pain Field Generator att:Audioguru

[quiet roit]

Wiring Pain Field Generator att:Audioguru

Again, I require knowledge from the electronic gods. Past threads have dismissed the effectiveness of small commercial devices used to stop dog barking. I have found this to be true, even the expensive, high-end pain field generator from Information Unlimited failed to quiet my neighbor's dogs.
Experienced Forum member Audioguru has commented that the piezo tweeters used for these devices are too wimpy & cheap to be effective. His expertise & depth of knowledge led me to purchase two 300-watt ultrasonic transducers. They have a 4" round metal body with frequency range of 10kHz to 25kHz, (4-8 OHM impedance), (sensitivity: 99db), (30 oz. magnet structure), they also have a 3.3uF, 100v capacitor soldered on the postive terminal. Powering the transducers is a 240-WATT Extended Range Power Amplifier, (frequency response: 20kHz to 30kHz), (output power: 2x120W max), (2x40W RMS), (output impedance: 4 Ohms), (power supply: 12V DC - 11-16V). Providing frequency source for the Power Amp is a microchip programmed with an ultrasonic frequency sweep. Output is a low duty cycle square wave, which continuously changes frequency over several thousand hertz. The sweep frequency generator IC came assembled on a circuit board with assorted resistors & capacitors. The circuit board is powered by 12 volts & has a RCA cord plugged into a Y splitter that plugs into the Power Amp. 12 volt power to the circuit board & Power Amp is supplied by a regulated DC power supply, (input voltage: 105 - 125VAC, 115V normal), (input line frequency; 60hZ), (output voltage: 13.8VDC+0.3V), (output current: 10 amp constant / 12 amp surge), (output ripple: 150mV RMS). I have hooked this up as described & it functions as desired. Now I want to place the transducers 200 feet from everything else. The 12-Volt Power Supply, the Circuit Board, & the Power Amp will all be together inside my house. Exiting the house will be 4 wires from the Power Amp outputs. These wires will run 200 feet to the transducers, which are encased, & hanging in a tree. What size & type wire should be used to prevent power loss? Any & all advice/suggestions that will make this system a more effective dog silencer is appreciated.
Thank You,
Quiet Roit

 

[Papabravo]

I think somebody sold you a bill of goods! OOOOH RAHHH! Seems like it would irritate the dog and cause him to bark more. What is the evidence that there is any truth to this myth? Attention Mythbusters and the Brown Note. ROFL

 

[HarveyH42]

Got a hunch you won't get the results you desire... This sounds like it might cause some hearing damage. Anyway, not a wire expert, but 400 ft of 18 ga speaker wire for outdoors use would be quite expensive, although from your list of components, cost isn't an issue.
It would be more effective if it only blasts the dog when its being a problem, rather than torment it continuiously (it'll become deaf or get use to it, maybe just go insane). Although most people won't actually hear the sound, most will be aware of it, also at your proposed levels it can cause some hearing damage. I did an ultrasonic cat chaser, little over a year ago. Only two cats seem to completely ignore it. My neighbor (main source of the cats) use to wonder about it until I showed him what I built. Mostly you can hear the speakers 'click' on/off, but there is a difference in ambient sounds when it's off or on, kind of muted I guess.
Might look into telepone cable, its 4 conductor and fairly cheap with insulation suitable for outdoor use, and its easy to find in the length you require. I don't remember the difference between using a solid conductor and stranded, something to do with voltage and current. With such a long run, I'd guess signal quality will suffer some, but I guess the dog won't care if its a clean/painful signal or a noisy/painful signal...

 

[quiet roit]

I tried it up close & personnel, the dogs responded by shutting up & looking confused. Now I need to know what size & type of wire to use for the 200 foot run.

 

[quiet roit]

This will not be on all the time. The only time I will turn it on is at night when they start barking. Once they cease barking I turn it off. It only has to be on 30 seconds or less before the dogs get the message.

 

[Sceadwian]

Were you near the device when it was being used? Because 300 watts at those frequencie should be enough to put a human on the floor let alone a dog.

 

[quiet roit]

Yes, I was holding the box with the transducers in it. The Power Amp is only 240-WATT, so I don't think it is getting anything near 300 -WATT to the transducers. Add 200 feet of wire into the mix & those WATTs get smaller & smaller.

 

[Sceadwian]

Anything more than 2 or 3 watts at those frequencies within a few feet of the 'target' should cause discomfort. 200 or 300 watts should cause severe pain and temporary hearing loss, even for a human, doesn't matter that we can't hear it it's still exacting a force on our ear drums. Granted due to the high frequency it's attenuated more passing through the ear canal.

 

[HarveyH42]

Wonder how long before the dogs get use to it... Anyway, www.Partsexpress.com would be a good place to learn about outdoor speakers, and wire requirements. They have all kinds of audio stuff, and great 'How to' information about most anything to do audio for home and automobiles. Might want to add some sort of safety feature, just incase somebody you don't want to injure is standing too close to the line of fire.
This is really kind of an interesting experiment. The dogs are behaving in a normal manner, then given a negetive stimulus. How will they adapt to this new threat. You aren't actually training them, as you aren't introducing any new behavior. It'll work for a little while, but doubt it will last. Anyone who has had a dog knows it's not that simple. I'd guess they'll eventually get aggrevated, frustrated, and eventually become aggressive and vicious. Couple people get bite or mauled, and animal control will take them away.

 

[audioguru]

Your amplifier produces "40W" per channel. It might be turned up way too much and its fundamental frequency might be only 20W and its distortion harmonics might be the other 20W.

The power rating for a tweeter is for it to reproduce music. High frequencies are momentary and are at a much lower power level than the woofer.

If you feed a continuous high frequency signal to a tweeter then it will quickly burn out. They are fragile.

 

[quiet roit]

Power to the transducers will never exceed 30 seconds. These are the biggest & baddest transducers I could find. Will a bigger amplifier help?

 

[justDIY]

how about just shooting the dogs in question, with a rifle?
the penalty is quite lax in most ares, you'll probably just wind up paying a few thousand in fines and legal fees.

 

[Oznog]

Well a "bark collar" will shock the dog only when they bark. This is far more effective. I mean, why stop barking because there's a continuous loud noise? Dogs bark and howl when loud noises pick up- sirens and such.

You really need a "bark detector" to trigger a squack from the transducer. Tricky to pick out a bark from other noises though. Collar works great because the bark is so loud at that range nothing else would be close to that in amplitude.

 

[audioguru]

A big bad tweeter is too big and heavy to produce very high frequencies.
Surely it has a detailed datasheet. Post it.

 

[quiet roit]

There is no brand name or part number on the transducers so I have no way
to get a data sheet.
The information on back of the tweeters reads; 300W Peak Power,
4-8 OHM Impedance
Sensitivity: 99dB
30 oz. magnet structure
The person I bought them from said they have a frequency range of 10kHz to 25kHz.

 

[audioguru]

Guys are selling "extra speakers from a job" from the back of their van at malls. They say they are at a very reduced price. The speakers are cheap garbage. Did you buy them?

I don't think your tweeters will survive only 30W briefly and I don't think they have response above 10kHz.

 

[quiet roit]

You are correct sir. Now can you tell me what kind of tweeter will work for what I am trying to create, & where they can be purchased?

 

[Sceadwian]

It amazes me why people post in here and wait weeks for a responce when this is what you get for 30 seconds of searching on google for "300 watt ultrasonic transducer"
**broken link removed**

 

[audioguru]

Many years ago, Motorola made piezo tweeters that were powerful and had a response up into ultrasonic frequencies. Then they sold that business to CTS and a few companies sell the tweeters.
Here is a link from Google: https://www.usspeaker.com/cts index-1.htm

The frequency response of a piezo tweeter is many peaks and valleys. You need to feed it at the frequency of a peak, somehow or use a frequency sweep.

 

[quiet roit]

You are correct sir. Now can you tell me what kind of tweeter will work for what I am trying to create, & where they can be purchased?