Wiring 4CH RF for forward/reverse operation of 12v window motor

[Yeoman]

I hoping someone can educate me, address a concern and if needed offer me a solution to the following. I have used the 4CH RF controller below to activate a power window motor in forward and reverse using a remote fob.

The motor has an internal circuit breaker(?) which causes the motor to shut down on amperage rise, protecting the motor and glass at physical limits of window travel and preventing the severance of someone's arm
In the application where I'm using this (to raise and lower a cable) I've built in physical limitations to travel.
When I activate the motor using the remote "A" button, the physical limitation is reached and motor goes "quiet". However, to reverse motor direction, the "A" button must be pressed again before the "B" button revereses the motor as desired. Same thing when physical limitation is achieved in the other direction.
For my education, is power continuing to be applied to the motor at the level of its circuit breaker cutoff until the A button is switched off with the second pressing, generating heat at the motor's shut down amperage?
This system will run on a 7ah battery so I don't want power use occurring unnecessarily and while the controller is 20A rated I don't know the amps of the motor's circuit breaker (believed to be <20) and don't want to fry the controller. The controller will not be visible so I will have no way of knowing if the second pressing (off) of the "A" or "B" button signal was received by the controller.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

You might have the relays arrangd in toggle mode. A B and C are meaningless to us.. NO NO and C make sense to us,

maybe you need them set as momentary, so they are activated as long as they are held.

In the standard SPDT door lock motor wiring of both up and down are activated at the same time, nothing happens.

You can use an extra set of relays (automotive type) SPDT minimum and wire external limit switches. Once the limit is reached no power is drawn, but you need momentary outputs. The limit switches have to carry the relay coil current.

You can convert a single output to fully up and fully down which I doubt you want.

I have a more comprehensive witching circuit that can include OPEN or CLOSED indicators as well as something to use to indicate moving.

Reality says, that you should not instantaneously switch from fwd to reverse without pausing briefly.

 

[Reloadron]

If I wanted to do what you are looking to do I would likely just use an off the shelf inexpensive H bridge circuit. Using the relays on your board I would configure an H bridge using NO relay contacts and close two at a time and there are drawbacks to doing it that way.

Obviously S1 and S2 can never be closed at the same time and nor can S3 and S4. Only S1 and S4 OR S2 and S3 . Using a simple H bridge circuit and only one or two channels from your key fob would be a better way to go and this assumes the key fob receiver is setup for latching on a button press.

Also read and understand what KISS mentions in his post.

Ron

 

[Yeoman]

Thank you for your reply. You are correct. I am in "self-lock" (toggle) mode and "jog" (momentary) would solve my problem/concern.
This is all I have to set/change mode. Any idea in written form how I go from self-lock (press on press off) to jog?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

If I wanted to do what you are looking to do I would likely just use an off the shelf inexpensive H bridge circuit. Using the relays on your board I would configure an H bridge using NO relay contacts and close two at a time and there are drawbacks to doing it that way.

Obviously S1 and S2 can never be closed at the same time and nor can S3 and S4. Only S1 and S4 OR S2 and S3 . Using a simple H bridge circuit and only one or two channels from your key fob would be a better way to go and this assumes the key fob receiver is setup for latching on a button press.

A 'better' way of doing it is using SPDT relays, which appear to be what he has - this avoids the problems of shorting out the supply.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Thank you for your reply. You are correct. I am in "self-lock" (toggle) mode and "jog" (momentary) would solve my problem/concern.
This is all I have to set/change mode. Any idea in written form how I go from self-lock (press on press off) to jog?

The instructions are usually available to download where you got the board from, and obviously vary depending on the exact board you have.

 

[dr pepper]

I agree with nige, use the boards relays to fire a couple of offboard relays to control the motor, then a supply short isnt going to happen.
Actually you could use one offboard relay for for/rev, and one of the receiver boards relays for start/stop as a minimal design.
2 offboard relays would mean you'd only have to press one remote button each direction.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I agree with nige, use the boards relays to fire a couple of offboard relays to control the motor, then a supply short isnt going to happen.
Actually you could use one offboard relay for for/rev, and one of the receiver boards relays for start/stop as a minimal design.
2 offboard relays would mean you'd only have to press one remote button each direction.

You don't need off-board relays, the existing ones are SPDT.

 

[Reloadron]

A 'better' way of doing it is using SPDT relays, which appear to be what he has - this avoids the problems of shorting out the supply.

That should work fine. I would, either way, give consideration to reversing direction but then too I can go from lower to raise on my truck power windows without much if any pause.

Thank you for your reply. You are correct. I am in "self-lock" (toggle) mode and "jog" (momentary) would solve my problem/concern.
This is all I have to set/change mode. Any idea in written form how I go from self-lock (press on press off) to jog?
View attachment 121736

The problem I have with most of these things is the instructions are pretty much written in what we call Chinglish. I have one here similar to yours and what I call latching they call locking and the descriptors aren't very good. It does work as advertised once you figure things out.

Ron

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

That should work fine. I would, either way, give consideration to reversing direction but then too I can go from lower to raise on my truck power windows without much if any pause.

Dead simple because he has four SPDT relays, so in your diagram above relay1 is S1/S2 and relay2 is S3/S4 (and the same for the other two relays) - press 1 to wind the window down, press 2 to wind it back up - no chance of shorting the supply out. Obviously press 3 & 4 for the other window.

 

[Yeoman]

All very nice, but I have no clue how to change this SPDT from interlock to jog (momentary). The seller says (in Chinglish), look at the pictures (above). Worthless.
Here are written instructions for a similar SPDT (also in Chinglish) and for me, so far, also proving useless.

 

[Yeoman]

Ok, I think I know the problem: the jumper. The only mention of a jumper is in this photo.

Pretty sure I need to move or remove the jumper to change modes. We'll see

 

[be80be]

Jog press and hold "ON" let go of "ON" to stop looks like to me.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Here https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/problem-with-actuator-and-relay.156711/#post-1352827 is a thread you might want to look at. The .pdf in the thread shows some comprehensive options.

You can add your own limits and dynamic braking.
You can detect moving.

With DPDT relays, you can detect the end states.

But you need jog,

Aside: Drum switches which are used for motors, won't let you go from forward to reverse without stopping first.

 

[Yeoman]

Well that was it. Now in momentary mode!

Question- if batteries are removed from a fob for replacement, is it necessary to resinc the fob and relay? The way I'm installing this it will be difficult to access.

 

[Reloadron]

Yay, I was going to type my Chinglish instructions which once figured out worked.

Question- if batteries are removed from a fob for replacement, is it necessary to resinc the fob and relay? The way I'm installing this it will be difficult to access.

Nope, replacing the fob battery won't change anything, at least the one I have which looks like yours it doesn't.

Ron

 

[Yeoman]

Thanks Ron. Good to know.

 

[Reloadron]

Hope it all works out for you.

Ron