# Windows 10 Fear and Loathing

#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
I wish I can keep 7 forever!! This is definitely the best windows os!!! I have it on all my computers...
Man after my own heart. I loved windows 7 and XP before it. Now I love Win 10 better.

#### synaptic

##### New Member
Just to clarify for those who are baffled, EULA = End User License Agreement

I haven't told you about any shiny things. From what I have seen so far, there is nothing significantly new in Win 10, Cortina and Edge certainly not.

I accept your concern about privacy but it is not peculiar to Microsoft and Win 10. I don't know what it is like in Spain or other countries, but in Britain your every move is recorded, tabulated and stored. You can't even walk down the road without being on camera. And on computers Google are the worst. They get into every part of your system, smart phones and all. Afraid it is just a fact of life and always has been so.

By the way have you upgraded to Win 10 and speak from experience or are you just repeating scare stories that you have heard?
I'm sorry to hear of your problems with targeted ads and card fraud.
( BTW , did any of that happen in W10 ... ? )

I have to say that for me , a pro-active approach to personal online security is vital these days .

Google and others , harvest data for re-sale from everywhere they possibly can ( including this forum ! )
It's simple enough to stop them , but we are back with a " pro-active approach ".
It has become an "opt-out" world .... we've already been "opted-in " by default , it doesn't matter that
nobody noticed.

These add-ons are available for most browsers , and well worth using in my opinion :-
Privacy Badger - will notify the user of tracking cookies and do some basic blocking
uBlock Origin - a far more sophisticated tool for fine tuning of cookie control
NoScript - prevents cross-site scripts from executing

These would certainly have stopped the targeted ads , and probably the fraudulent card transactions also .

....and yes , I do have first hand experience with W10 , I installed it on a client's machine last year ,
and as a result of what I saw , I installed it on a virtual machine ,
then I analysed the MS server traffic with Wireshark.

In previous Windows systems , the default "phone home " behaviour could easily be blocked via the Hosts file ,but not with W10 ,
because MS telemetry now bypasses the Hosts file and is hard-coded ( for the first time ! ) .
There is little the user can do about it , and I do mean "the user" and not "the owner".

When they say " Free upgrade to Windows 10 " they are using the word "free" in a very specific sense , to mean
" we won't be taking any MONEY from you ..... "

After that first experience , the more I investigated it , the more shocked I became at just how far people were being
taken advantage of , by passively and/or unknowingly accepting this new , automatically "opted-in " scenario .

I have yet to see a check-box that says -
" Click here to prostitute every aspect of your private life that we can possibly collect , for all eternity ".

But that is precisely the implicit contract that a person " signs " when they click " I Accept ".
That is what people are agreeing to when they register on " social networks " ( no names mentioned here )
If they didn't read ALL of the EULA , it is their own hard luck , they have no excuse for crying later .

For decades now , MS Windows has become a comfort-zone for about 90% of the world's computer users.
People are naturally reluctant to leave their comfort-zone , and they come to put their trust in it ,
and MS knows this .
But I believe that with Windows 10 , they have crossed a line and are blatantly abusing that trust .

It looks to me that they have now effectively moved out of software as their core business
and into data-harvesting ,having seen the massive profits that Google and Facebook are making
from personal data alone .
And yes , I know , MS are not the only offender in this regard by any means .

I'm not trying to say that people should never use W10 , just that they be aware of exactly
what they are signing up for , and what a significant "game-changer" W10 really is .

I hope this clarifies some of the points I made in my earlier post

" Eyes wide open , brain switched on " , that's my motto .

Happy New Year to all .... did I already say that ?
.... when is Chinese New Year ?

PS - I cobbled this post together from some previous stuff I'd written recently on W10 , in various places .
- I hope it's not too incoherent

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#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to hear of your problems with targeted ads and card fraud.
( BTW , did any of that happen in W10 ... ? )

I have to say that for me , a pro-active approach to personal online security is vital these days .

Google and others , harvest data for re-sale from everywhere they possibly can ( including this forum ! )
It's simple enough to stop them , but we are back with a " pro-active approach ".
It has become an "opt-out" world .... we've already been "opted-in " by default , it doesn't matter that
nobody noticed.

These add-ons are available for most browsers , and well worth using in my opinion :-
Privacy Badger - will notify the user of tracking cookies and do some basic blocking
uBlock Origin - a far more sophisticated tool for fine tuning of cookie control
NoScript - prevents cross-site scripts from executing

These would certainly have stopped the targeted ads , and probably the fraudulent card transactions also .

....and yes , I do have first hand experience with W10 , I installed it on a client's machine last year , and as a result
of what I saw , I installed it on a virtual machine , then I analysed the MS server traffic with Wireshark.

In previous Windows systems , the default "phone home " behaviour could easily be blocked via the Hosts file ,
but not with W10 , because MS telemetry now bypasses the Hosts file and is hard-coded ( for the first time ! ) .
There is little the user can do about it , and I do mean "the user" and not "the owner".

When they say " Free upgrade to Windows 10 " they are using the word "free" in a very specific sense , to mean
" we won't be taking any MONEY from you ..... "

After that first experience , the more I investigated it , the more shocked I became at just how far people were being
taken advantage of , by passively and/or unknowingly accepting this new , automatically "opted-in " scenario .

I have yet to see a check-box that says -
" Click here to prostitute every aspect of your private life that we can possibly collect , for all eternity ".

But that is precisely the implicit contract that a person " signs " when they click " I Accept ".
That is what people are agreeing to when they register on " social networks " ( no names mentioned here )
If they didn't read ALL of the EULA , it is their own hard luck , they have no excuse for crying later .

For decades now , MS Windows has become a comfort-zone for about 90% of the world's computer users.
People are naturally reluctant to leave their comfort-zone , and they come to put their trust in it , and MS knows this .
But I believe that with Windows 10 , they have crossed a line and are blatantly abusing that trust .

It looks to me that they have now effectively moved out of software as their core business and into data-harvesting ,
having seen the massive profits that Google and Facebook are making from personal data alone .
And yes , I know , MS are not the only offender in this regard by any means .

I'm not trying to say that people should never use W10 , just that they be aware of exactly what they are signing up for ,
and what a significant "game-changer" W10 really is .

I hope this clarifies some of the points I made in my earlier post

" Eyes wide open , brain switched on " , that's my motto .

Happy New Year to all .... did I already say that ?
.... when is Chinese New Year ?

PS - I cobbled this post together from some previous stuff I'd written recently on W10 , in various places .
- I hope it's not too incoherent
Hi synaptic,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly. I see now that you are no light-weight sniping at Win10 from the sidelines.

What you say is no doubt true. My answer will sound in the smart arse class- so what! I don't mean that to be flippant, but factual. My point is, like I have said before, that the moment you do anything, in the UK anyway, you open a barn door to your affairs.

It was my birthday on 16 Jan 2016, and you know the annoying images they keep posting on the home page of the Google search engine, I had a huge *!!%%## chocolate birthday cake on my Google home page and a birthday wish using my full name. Now to my knowledge I have never given Google my birth date and have always tried to avoid signing up to any of their stuff. I was annoyed because I can't stand chocolate cake

I know a little about security, but I do know a security expert. He demonstrated how easy it is to break into the WiFi channels available in our local. On a recent TV show a group of hackers showed that it was trivial to break into most accounts, even military/government. They said that the security was laughable.

As far as the credit card fraud is concerned, it happened with XP, Win7, and non computer. One debit card fraud was associated with a building society account that had no activity whatsoever. It was just a depository for a block of cash. One day I got an email asking if I was trying to make a number of cash withdrawals in Brighton. I hadn't been to Brighton for 5 years. My father in law was driven to distraction by rip offs on his credit cards.

No, I'm afraid it's not Win 10, or anything else. It's the fact that the security system used for cash transactions is woefully inadequate. Apparently if you were so minded you can buy a whole block of credit card details and just help yourself to the cash in the accounts. It's a bit like car security used to be in the 1960s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. As for the credit card companies, they could not be more blase. You phone them up they refund the purloined dosh, cancel all your credit cards and literally you get a new set of cards in the post, sometimes the next day. I think the level of wastage, which is the euphemism for theft, was running at something like 5% last time I checked. And who pays in the end- the consumer.

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#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
It was my birthday on 16 Jan 2016
Well happy birthday! Mine was on the 10th

#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
Well happy birthday! Mine was on the 10th
Thank you sir and the same to you- did you get a Google cake? If it was marzipan I will be very jealous.

#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
While on the subject of personal privacy what do ETOnions think about ID cards- good or bad?

#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
Thank you sir and the same to you- did you get a Google cake? If it was marzipan I will be very jealous.
Thank you. I don't believe I ever looked at google, or if I did I didn't pay attention

While on the subject of personal privacy what do ETOnions think about ID cards- good or bad?
What kind of ID cards?

#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
What kind of ID cards?
Sorry, I forgot the international side of ETO. About two years ago there was a big initiative by state security departments for all Brits to be issued with ID cards as in some continental countries, Spain and Italy for example I think. The personal freedom brigade voted it down, so the initiative was shelved. I was just wondering what the general view of this is.

#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
Sorry, I forgot the international side of ETO. About two years ago there was a big initiative by state security departments for all Brits to be issued with ID cards as in some continental countries, Spain and Italy for example I think. The personal freedom brigade voted it down, so the initiative was shelved. I was just wondering what the general view of this is.
Seems no different from everyone carrying around their drivers licenses here in the US (and probably just about everywhere else). I think it would be a good idea to always carry an ID card with you.

#### jpanhalt

##### Well-Known Member
Actually, the American Constitution seems to prohibit the government from requiring universal identification cards. The driver's license exception is allowed, but that is because driving is a privilege, not a right. When Social Security was first enacted, there was an uproar about violation of that provision, hence it was written that the cards could not be used for identification but only as evidence of "voluntary" enrollment (what a joke). The bottom of my card has bold print: "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY * NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION." Check yours to see if it is still there. Of course, preventing illegal voting is now a major issue that challenges that interpretation of our law.

As I understand it, the main objection arose from the excesses of the British Crown with "general warrants." Our 4th Amendment is usually cited for the legal basis for an individual to refuse to identify himself. I didn't find quickly the exact Constitutional citation, but here is a discussion of that right: http://www.copblock.org/38811/are-you-required-to-show-id-or-answer-questions-to-police-and-other-government-agents-upon-demand-by-john-henry-hill-m-d-ph-d/

John

#### tvtech

##### Well-Known Member
I am absorbed in an On Line Adobe flash game I play. I am a farmer. Retarded maybe...but I use XP still....

Firefox, Chrome, Opera and even slow IE crash from time....but I get all working again with the minimum of fuss....using a outdated OS that can still handle things properly and does not sell your soul to the world....no matter what. XP was an OS that MS will never ever be able to replace.

I still do my banking with XP, in spite of being warned otherwise. Crap.

Until XP drops me......I will not change.

Regards,
tv

#### DerStrom8

##### Super Moderator
I am absorbed in an On Line Adobe flash game I play. I am a farmer. Retarded maybe...but I use XP still....

Firefox, Chrome, Opera and even slow IE crash from time....but I get all working again with the minimum of fuss....using a outdated OS that can still handle things properly and does not sell your soul to the world....no matter what. XP was an OS that MS will never ever be able to replace.

I still do my banking with XP, in spite of being warned otherwise. Crap.

Until XP drops me......I will not change.

Regards,
tv
TV, have you used Win7? I actually liked Win7 better than XP, and that's coming from an XP fanboy!

It's much smoother, faster, and safer to use than XP too.

#### Nigel Goodwin

##### Super Moderator
About two years ago there was a big initiative by state security departments for all Brits to be issued with ID cards.
I don't have any problem with 'to be issued' - but as far as I'm aware it was 'be made to pay (quite a lot) to have a compulsory ID card'.

#### JimB

##### Super Moderator
A bit more than two years go, it was in the Blair era.
Teflon Tony and Grasping Gordon.
Who the hell elected those crooks!
The Great British Public really had the wool pulled over their eyes by that lot.

JimB

#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
A bit more than two years go, it was in the Blair era.
Teflon Tony and Grasping Gordon.
Who the hell elected those crooks!
The Great British Public really had the wool pulled over their eyes by that lot.

JimB
Hell how time flies. To me everything was about 2 years ago.

As you say Teflon Tony and Grasping Gordon. How the Labour Party went off track in those days. I'm very pleased that they have found their way back and got a genuine leader now; without doubt the best Labour leader ever.

#### spec

##### Well-Known Member
I don't have any problem with 'to be issued' - but as far as I'm aware it was 'be made to pay (quite a lot) to have a compulsory ID card'.
Yes, I had forgotten about the paying bit. Was it around £250 before its final demise?

#### jpanhalt

##### Well-Known Member
For many Americans, it is not the cost of getting an ID to which they object, it is far more fundamental to our culture than that. In legal terms, getting an ID from the government is "petitioning" the government. In other words, it is a petition to the government so you can exercise your rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as an American. What if you happen to be on the no fly list, will there be extra hurdles before you can get your identification? Those concerns are not just paranoia.

Yesterday, I had to register with the government as a "drone" pilot. I had to provide home address, mailing address, telephone, e-mail, and a credit card number. I had to agree that the information could be used or shared in any way the FAA saw fit. Then my petition was electronically validated and "approved." I had to acknowledge that and take some more steps. I have been building models sine I was 4 years old and have been flying RC models since 1952. The FAA didn't even exist then. And that hobby certainly fits in all three categories of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for me. The US Congress even passed a bill limiting the FAA's intrusion into recreational flying. The FAA ignored that. Unfortunately, no individual modeler or group has $1 million to fight the FAA and enforce its rights. John #### spec ##### Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member Actually, the American Constitution seems to prohibit the government from requiring universal identification cards. The driver's license exception is allowed, but that is because driving is a privilege, not a right. When Social Security was first enacted, there was an uproar about violation of that provision, hence it was written that the cards could not be used for identification but only as evidence of "voluntary" enrollment (what a joke). The bottom of my card has bold print: "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY * NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION." Check yours to see if it is still there. Of course, preventing illegal voting is now a major issue that challenges that interpretation of our law. As I understand it, the main objection arose from the excesses of the British Crown with "general warrants." Our 4th Amendment is usually cited for the legal basis for an individual to refuse to identify himself. I didn't find quickly the exact Constitutional citation, but here is a discussion of that right: http://www.copblock.org/38811/are-you-required-to-show-id-or-answer-questions-to-police-and-other-government-agents-upon-demand-by-john-henry-hill-m-d-ph-d/ John Some in-depth stuff from you John. The trouble is printing 'FOR SOCIAL SECURITY ONLY' is a typical piece of BS by the authorities. Here is the UK the cops can track anybody down if required. I can only assume that they can get hold of a person's records if necessary. The organizations with by far the most power and least control are the tax authorities. And who knows what the security boys get up to. #### spec ##### Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member For many Americans, it is not the cost of getting an ID to which they object, it is far more fundamental to our culture than that. In legal terms, getting an ID from the government is "petitioning" the government. In other words, it is a petition to the government so you can exercise your rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as an American. What if you happen to be on the no fly list, will there be extra hurdles before you can get your identification? Those concerns are not just paranoia. Yesterday, I had to register with the government as a "drone" pilot. I had to provide home address, mailing address, telephone, e-mail, and a credit card number. I had to agree that the information could be used or shared in any way the FAA saw fit. Then my petition was electronically validated and "approved." I had to acknowledge that and take some more steps. I have been building models sine I was 4 years old and have been flying RC models since 1952. The FAA didn't even exist then. And that hobby certainly fits in all three categories of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for me. The US Congress even passed a bill limiting the FAA's intrusion into recreational flying. The FAA ignored that. Unfortunately, no individual modeler or group has$1 million to fight the FAA and enforce its rights.

John
In a nut shell, frightening. There is the law, the constitution and all the rest, and then there is the real world.