# What is the best way to get 230volts at 50hz?

#### RayRay1132

##### Member
I've been wanting to build a circuit that runs off of the line frequency. However the circuit I want to build is for 230 volts at 50hz, and I live in the US, where line voltage/frequency is [email protected] What would be the best way to go about getting that voltage/frequency, is there a simple way to do it? Should I build a DC/AC inverter, redesign the circuit, etc?

#### crutschow

##### Well-Known Member
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How much power/current is needed at 230V, 50Hz?

#### JimB

##### Super Moderator
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What is it that you want to build?

Does the operation of the circuit depend on that voltage and frequency?
Or, could it be that the circuit has a PSU which converts the mains to DC, so you can develop the circuit using your local mains supply and then change the transformer, or even better change the taps on the transformer, when the thing has to run on 230v/50hz mains.

Or, just buy a SMPS with a universal 85v to 240v input. End of problem.

JimB

#### Reloadron

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I live in the US, where line voltage/frequency is [email protected]
Actually while I also live in the US my residential mains power is 240 VAC 60 Hz split phase so 120 VAC 60 Hz. If you can get by with 240 verse 230 VAC and 60 Hz you have it.

I agree if you better define your needs this will go much better.

Buy a 230 VAC 50 Hz UPS which will meet your power requirement.

Ron

#### Mickster

##### Well-Known Member
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Is the 230 volts at 50hz converted to DC in the circuit?
EDIT: Sorry, JimB already asked that...

#### JimB

##### Super Moderator
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Buy a 230 VAC 50 Hz UPS which will meet your power requirement.
But beware, what comes out of a cheap UPS may not be a sine wave.

JimB

#### RayRay1132

##### Member
What is it that you want to build?

Does the operation of the circuit depend on that voltage and frequency?
Or, could it be that the circuit has a PSU which converts the mains to DC, so you can develop the circuit using your local mains supply and then change the transformer, or even better change the taps on the transformer, when the thing has to run on 230v/50hz mains.

Or, just buy a SMPS with a universal 85v to 240v input. End of problem.

JimB
I'm trying to build a neon ring counter circuit for a clock, its dependant on the frequency, and I really don't want to modify it.

#### RayRay1132

##### Member
How much power/current is needed at 230V, 50Hz?
Maybe 20-30 watts at maximum.

#### crutschow

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Maybe 20-30 watts at maximum.
That seems awfully high for a clock.

#### Diver300

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I assume that you have a circuit that gets both power and timing from the mains.

There's no need to run the power for the clock from 50 Hz. I suggest that you power the clock from whatever ac-dc power supply you want, and run that from 60 Hz, and then look at a clock signal that doesn't need much power.

You could have a high frequency crystal and divide down to 50 Hz. Some GPS receivers have a 1 pps (pulse per second) output and some of those can be changed to other frequencies, so you could set that to 50 Hz.

Alternatively, if you have clock design that uses 50 Hz, it must divide the 50 Hz to 1 Hz somehow. I guess that it divides by 5 and by 10 to do that. All you need to do is to add one more neon to the ring that divides by 5, so that it divides by 6, and you have a clock that runs on 60 Hz.

#### Nigel Goodwin

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I'm trying to build a neon ring counter circuit for a clock, its dependant on the frequency, and I really don't want to modify it.
Sorry, but it's a really silly idea - simply find a circuit that uses 60Hz - or modify the existing one to use 60Hz. Generally you're more likely to find such antique circuits using 60Hz than 50Hz.

#### Les Jones

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I agree with Nigel (Post #11) Post the schematic of the circuit that you plan to build. We can then see how easy it is to modify to work with 60 hz and the nature of the clock signal you require if you insist on running it on 50 hz. I imagine the first division stages ( Probably 5 and 10 ) are hidden (I.E the neons are NOT on display) If that is the case you only need a pulse every second and that could be obtained by dividing down a 32.768 Khz crystal. You could buy a ready made DS3231 clock module, use a 32.768 Khz crystal in a CMOS oscillator followed by some CMOS divider ICs or you could get the 1 hz pulses from a cheap quartz clock. You would then just need a level converter to give the required clock signal amplitude.

Les.

#### Reloadron

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But beware, what comes out of a cheap UPS may not be a sine wave.

JimB
True, I should have mentioned that. You want a TSW (True Sine Wave inverter and not a MSW (Modified Sine Wave Inverter).

Thanks
Ron

#### JimB

##### Super Moderator
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Also consider that the frequency accuracy of a UPS may be quite poor and so unsuitable for a clock.

As previously suggested:
Post the schematic of the circuit that you plan to build. We can then see how easy it is to modify to work with 60 hz
Seems to be a good first approach, rather than generating a 50hz mains supply.

JimB

#### Les Jones

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I remember seeing something about neon ring counters when I was a kid but I could not remember how they worked so I had a look on the web. I found the basic circuit but I also found this circuit for a clock using them. Modifying it to work on 60 hz is much simpler than providing a 50 hz clock. It just requires adding one extra stage to the divide by five counter to make it divide by six at the huge cost of one resistor, one capacitor and one neon. I think any other clock designs for this type of clock will be very similar. one interesting point about the design is the use of LDRs to drive the nixie tubes.

Les.

#### audioguru

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Neon ring counter? With neon bulbs, not Nixie Tubes?
I made some neon bulb ring chasers about 59 years ago. I cast them and their 90V battery in cast clear acrylic. But one exploded (gas built-up in the battery).

#### RayRay1132

##### Member
Neon ring counter? With neon bulbs, not Nixie Tubes?
I made some neon bulb ring chasers about 59 years ago. I cast them and their 90V battery in cast clear acrylic. But one exploded (gas built-up in the battery).
The counter drives the nixie tubes.

#### RayRay1132

##### Member
That seems awfully high for a clock.
I know it won't be anywhere near that much, but I might add other stuff to it.

#### RayRay1132

##### Member
here's the schematic, it came from the same website les Jones mentioned.. It actually uses trigger tubes/thyratrons instead of ne-2 lamps. Should I connect the trigger electrode to the cathode for all of the tubes. I live in the U.S. so about 170 volts after rectifying. Also what section should I add a 6th tube too?

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#### Les Jones

##### Well-Known Member
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You can add the extra stage to either of the two divide by 5 stages. The one that divides 25 hz to 5 hz or the one that divides 5 hz down to 1 hz.

Les.

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