What are the issues with selling DIY stuff that plugs into mains (120/240VAC)?

[eyAyXGhF]

Hey all,
I'm hoping to sell a few electronic widgets (noise makers for musicians) online, and my prototype currently plugs directly into mains.

I'm using a 3-prong cord (with ground going to the enclosure), fuse, switch and transformer. I'm under the impression that I cannot actually sell products like this without certification, is this correct?

Has anyone gone through the process of having something certified to be sold? If so, I'm wondering if I'd need to be seeking certification for every country that the widget may go to as well? I'd also be curious who I contact in Canada and how much it may cost.

If getting certified is necessary, complicated and expensive, I assume I can get away with just using a wallwart (external adapter). Although I always find them to be damn cheap and flimsy - not something I want to use.

Thanks for the help

 

[bountyhunter]

If you buy a finished product (wall wart) and leave it sealed, the liability stays with them (assuming you use it properly). Open it up, copy it, screw with it and it's all on you. I don't know the current cert levels needed, depends on what it is. There are laws about the amount of noise it can pass onto the AC line. saftey laws, etc. I know it has to be islated from the AC line.

 

[bountyhunter]

Hey all,
If getting certified is necessary, complicated and expensive

anything dealing with the government is complicated and expensive. It's how they preserve their existence.

 

[alec_t]

There is also the matter of product liability insurance. That will no doubt be expensive (but less expensive than defending a lawsuit if one of your products caused personal injury or property damage).

 

[eyAyXGhF]

anything dealing with the government is complicated and expensive. It's how they preserve their existence.

Hilarious! (and very true - former government worker here). Thanks for the wall wart tips! Keeping with the spirit of this project, I really wish I could find some a US or Canadian made wall wart that is made to last with a nice good cord on it - but I'm living in a dream land.

 

[Dean Huster]

And, I understand that if you use a UL or CSA approved wall wart, you can tell your customers that your product is UL or CSA approved. It's the mains voltage that's the liability problem, not the low voltages of your circuitry.

 

[mnphysicist]

It depends... You would need to look at Canada's export laws, and the import laws of the countries you wish to sell into. It also depends upon the rest of the circuitry. If its all analog, its not too big a deal... if you have a microprocessor, then you will most likely need to run tests at an accredited lab, build a technical file, and jump some paper work hoops. Bear in mind, there are tons of non-certified products from China being sold all over the world... many of which are well engineered and solid, a few of which burst into flame and/or shock their users.

There are somewhat global standards... one set of lab tests, followed by technical files/reports tailored to each standards criteria. Some standards are fairly widely accepted, such that if you have CE, you are widely covered, others are more narrow in scope (and usually cheaper).

CSA as a starting point **broken link removed**
TUV is global https://tuvcanada.ca/newhome.cfm

As long as your circuitry is analog, you are for the most part pretty safe with a good high quality certified wall wart. Digital usually equates to additional EMC susceptibility and emissions testing, and if can take a few iterations to get your unit to pass. Safety testing is usually a verification that you followed the standards... but not always. If surge testing is required, it can take a few iterations of charred and melted units to get things nailed down.

There are lots of gotchas in this arena... rules of thumb often hit 99%, but the 1% can be an expensive gotcha.

 

[eyAyXGhF]

Thanks for all of the replies,
I'll be modifying the design to use a wallwart.

 

[cachehiker]

Wall-warts are typically limited to what are referred to as Class 2 outputs: <5A, <24V, <100VA. If the entire appliance can be powered with a Class 2 supply like a wall-wart, it is either exempt from safety certification requirements or may be self-certified via in-house documentation that you meet the relevant standards. Over 100VA and the wall-warts fail tests associated with staying plugged in. Circuitry powered by more than 24V is considered a potential shock hazard. Low voltage but over 5A still equates to a potential fire hazard. It does not exempt you from electromagnetic compatibility requirements if you have digital circuits running over a few KHz. I forget what the general limit is for analog circuits.

The cost of these third party certifications vary but are often in the tens of thousands of US$. There is then the maintenance costs of another few thousand of US$ per year per file for factory inspections and file reviews when the standards are updated.

If you lack these certifications, the potential liability varies from customer to customer and from country to country. I we ship uncertified product to Canada, it often gets rejected at the provicial hydros. Most of our European customers will not buy uncertified products although their import into certain countries isn't specifically banned, same goes for Israel, Australia, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. About 50% of our US customers demand certification but merely importing it is legal.

Now just because the customer accepts it and certification isn't legally required, that doesn't save you from the prospect of fines if it is found to be out of compliance. This is where China gets away with bloody murder here. There are Chinese corporations that will ship freaking any piece of absolute garbage. Fine us? What do we care? We'll just reorganize under a different name and the government will rarely hold the new company liable for the old company's fines.