Continue to Site

Welcome to our site!

Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

  • Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.

Water tap potential (voltage) ?

Status
Not open for further replies.

vlad777

Member
Water tap potential (voltage) ?

Speed is length per time.
Current is an amount per time.

So if electrical current is coulomb per second
then water current is kilogram per second.

Electric voltage is joule per coulomb and
water voltage is joule per kilogram.

If we have a body that moves, it encounters
friction force. Friction force * speed = power.
So when friction power equals engine power
the body stops accelerating and it's speed is
constant.

So if we are talking about water amount and
not single moving body how do I calculate power of the
water source and it's water voltage (joules per kilogram) ???

Water current is easy to get, of course it is amount of water in a bucket
(in kg) per time it took to fill a bucket.
 
vlad777,

Water tap potential (voltage) ?
What is that? Please define it.

Speed is length per time.
Current is an amount per time.
Speed is distance per time.
Current is charge per time.

So if electrical current is coulomb per second
then water current is kilogram per second.
Electric current does not define water flow. Water flow is also measured in volume per time besides mass per time.

... how do I calculate power of the
water source and it's water voltage (joules per kilogram) ???
Run the water through a wheel connected to a generator to determine the electrical power is it capable of outputting. Or use the rotation of the wheel to do some work per time. It all depends on how fast you can convert the water to energy. No such thing as water voltage.

Water current is easy to get, of course it is amount of water in a bucket
(in kg) per time it took to fill a bucket.
What if the water does not flow, as in a still quiet lake? I can fill a bucket fast or slow by dipping the bucket in the lake. What is the flow rate in volume per time or mass per time then?

Ratch
 
What is that? Please define it.

I did. Joules per kg.

Actually it's a thought experiment of mine, I am not even shure I am making sense.

Speed is distance per time.
Current is charge per time.

I think current is not only electronics term.
I would say: Current is AMOUNT of charge per time.
so it can be amount of anything per time.


Run the water through a wheel connected to a generator to determine the electrical power is it capable of outputting. Or use the

rotation of the wheel to do some work per time. It all depends on how fast you can convert the water to energy.

Thanks!

What if the water does not flow, as in a still quiet lake? I can fill a bucket fast or slow by dipping the bucket in the lake.

What is the flow rate in volume per time or mass per time then?

Bucket has an opening of a constant surface so the water current is then amount of water that went trough it per time it took.

And actually if we wanted to be entirely correct it is not mass nor volume but moles.
Joule per mole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
vlad777,
I did. Joules per kg.

Actually it's a thought experiment of mine, I am not even shure I am making sense.
You threw out some units, but did not define what you mean by it. It still does not make sense in the context you proposed.

I think current is not only electronics term.
I would say: Current is AMOUNT of charge per time.
so it can be amount of anything per time.
Saying charge implies some amount.

I can point to a bucket of sand, and a hour later the bucket is still there. The bucket has not changed and time has passed, but no current exists. Only when movement is involved does the definition of current come into play.

Bucket has an opening of a constant surface so the water current is then amount of water that went trough it per time it took.
Yes, and I can splash water around the surface of the lake too, but that does not mean the lake has a current.

And actually if we wanted to be entirely correct it is not mass nor volume but moles.
Joule per mole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The article refers to the energy to change the phase of the material. I did not think that is what you were talking about.

Ratch
 
vlad777,

For single body energy causes speed.
No, energy can raise the body to a greater height or increase the body's temperature, all without increasing the speed.

For many particles voltage causes current.
Do you know why that is?

I am trying to understand both and make some analogy
for this two models.
That is your problem. Don't try to mix hydraulics with electrical science. It will either confuse you or you will learn it wrong. Do you know what voltage is without refering to "pressure", "force" or other liquid terms?

Ratch
 
Do you know what voltage IS without refering to "pressure", "force" or other liquid terms?

Ratch

Thats a good point!
Actually NO. (Although I use it like it's no biggie.)

PS
I wrongfully put in that article jut to point out that joule per mole is not unheard of.
 
Last edited:
vlad777,

Thats a good point!
Actually NO. (Although I use it like it's no biggie.)
Voltage is the energy density of the charge (joules/coulomb). If one end of wire has a higher energy density (voltage) than the other end, the charges will travel through the conductor to the other end where the energy density is lower. That is the mechanism which causes charges to move in a conductor. It is similar to heating one end of a bar of metal, causing the thermal energy to travel through the bar to the end with the lower thermal energy density.

Ratch
 
Voltage is potential energy that a test charge has inside electrical field of a charge
compared to potential energy of a test charge outside of that field.
Thats how they taught me, so it's defined trough force.

Maybe there's not much more to say
but explain to me how you understand "energy density".

Edit:
Thermal energy causes atoms to oscilate and then affect their neighbours.
What does energy do to electrons?
 
Last edited:
vlad777,

Voltage is potential energy that a test charge has inside electrical field of a charge
compared to potential energy of a test charge outside of that field.
Thats how they taught me, so it's defined trough force.
Voltage is the work or energy per charge that it takes to move the charge(s) against an electric field for a designated distance. It is the work expended and the amount of charges that determine the voltage, not the force. The force on a test charge is usually used to determine the electric field strength.

Think of it this way. Like charges repel, so it takes energy to get them to come together. You can expend a finite amount of energy to gather a lot of charges together in a loose cluster at one point, or use the same amount of energy to gather a few charges into a tighter cluster at another point. The tighter cluster will have a higher voltage (energy density). So if a conduction path occurs between the two points, the charges from the tighter cluster will travel to the looser cluster so they can spread out.

Ratch
 
Thanks. Your reply is very explanatory.
I will implement it in my mainstream thoughts.(I am serious and not trying to be funny.)

But...

OK.... You got me:
Yes, I AM still trying to figure out
my crazy idea.

So imagine two springs. One stronger and one weaker.
If you put the same value weights on both,
stronger will bend less and weaker more which means that
stronger will store less energy and weaker more energy.
So there you have it: energy per kg.

BTW in my language another word for voltage is tension.

(Also I better save this thread right away, because my last thread in this subforum got deleted.)
 
In hydraulics the power is pressure difference multiplied by volumetric flow. P = p * Q
 
In hydraulics the power is pressure difference multiplied by volumetric flow. P = p * Q

Thanks misterT . Thats very similar to P=U*I .
(Didn't know about volumetric flow so as soon as I read it, i checked it on wikipedia.)

So we are allowed to play around a little bit with the definitions / units but if I was able I would not be asking.

If we substitute Volume per second with kg/s what do we get for p ?
(the Power of course stays the same)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest threads

New Articles From Microcontroller Tips

Back
Top