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vero board vs PCB?

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Neil Groves

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I have just started to put a project together after the breadboard stage, and was wondering what is the best method of construction, what do you guys use the most?

My thinking is if i make a PCB and make a mistake with the tracks, i need to cut tracks and make wire links but the off board components will be easier to connect since i can mount them right on the edge of the PBC for direct mounting to the case or i can fit all the connectors together and run the wires to the off board components on the case in a loom making it look neater, however if i use vero board and make a mistake, i then have the opportunity to move a component to a more suitable position without starting all over again.

Not that anyone else will see the inside of the case but i think it's a case of pride in my work and knowing it is neat and tidy.

what is the most popular method of construction amongst you guys?

Neil.
 
Panic modes statement of PCB is very simple and not described at all (No offense)

If you don't mind things looking 'raw' on the inside of the box Veroboard(strop board) works great, and you can even get strip boards that mimic the layout of breadboards for easy transplanting. One plus of this is that it's easier to toss jumpers on any time you want for quick changes or fixes, if you're going to make a PCB it should be made right the first time, and if you have no PCB experience that makes it tougher.

If this is your first couple of boards, try veroboard first, it will give you quick results, PCB use will give you superior results though, and once you get the hang of it will be almost as fast as a slap dash veroboard creation and far far more reliable.

That being said if you're in this for the long haul and you really want to get a decent production system down PCB is the only way to go as 3v0 stated if you're just getting into this now starting straight out with PCB is probably a good idea, and the extra addition to the learning curve will eventually lead to smaller boards that work better, and if you get into more complex designs PCB is the only practical way to go.

You gotta weigh the pro's and cons.
 
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i have my guys do descriptions for me... ;-)
 
Oh, wow, are you the new boss? :eek: Lead on, we'll try to clean up! ;)

As far as I'm concerned there is no 'perfect' method of board production, most method have on advantage or another as well as disadvantages over the others that depend on what you're trying to do which is what makes Neil's question so hard to answer simply, we have no clue what he's building! Aside from the fact that it fit on a breadboard(s?)

Dead bug style still has it's advantages (ultimate 3D space saver) strip board is quick dirty works well is fixable and alterable, and PCB when done properly has more advantages, but speed/cost/redesign-ability all have to be factored in to determine which one is best for any given project, every project is different!
 
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My view is that most things which I make are effectively prototypes, they are not intended to be replicated and are likely to be modified any time I wish to accomodate a new requirement.

If the project uses RF, my favoured form of construction is UGLY.

If the project uses DC or low frequencies, I like to use a form of Veroboard which has individual square pads on both sides of the board, and the holes are through plated.

I then layout the components, I like to use Vero pins for mounting the discretes, (resistors, capacitors etc), and connect the whole lot up using tinned copper wire, insulated with PTFE sleeving as required.
As a variation of this I have used wire-wrap wire in the past, but find it a bit fiddly to strip the insulation.

Have a look at the attached picture of something which I have been working on this evening, just making it up as I go along.

The Veroboard is actually in the form of a half-height EuroCard prototyping board.
They are rather expensive, but I like using them.

JimB
 
That's not veroboard, it's padboard, which is heaps more work to make something and heaps messier as a result. However padboard can sometimes be more size-efficient.

For Neil Groves; there are plenty of opportunities in the future to make PCBs either yourself of get them made commercially, but I think it is a really powerful skill to be able to quickly throw something together on veroboard (stripboard NOT padboard).

It can reduce your prototyping time many times over compared to PCB; (layout/toner/etch/drill/solder), as with veroboard the procedure is; (solder). :)

And (as people have said) the ability to alter the design, add parts etc is another area veroboard is far superior to a PCB for prototyping or a simple one-off design.
 
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I have just started to put a project together after the breadboard stage, and was wondering what is the best method of construction, what do you guys use the most?

I always use veroboard, it's fast, easy, and reasonably cheap.

In the time it takes to design and make a PCB you could have finsihed building the entire project on veroboard, boxed and complete :D
 
Yes Nigel. We used to use veroboard only. First time i saw one as given free with an UK magazine, way back in late 60s.

later came these dot /pad boards. also we used to have generic combination of various types of ics (round and flat) on a single board, may be , we can call mixed board.

of late i use eagle or pcb123 for home brewing the pcbs as it is easier to make rather than straining the eyes (especially after reaching 67 years ) in soldering jumpers, place to place . Thuis even if late by a days, we make a pcb at home with toner transfer.
 
Started to use Veroboard some 18 months ago, bought through Farnell's local representative.

It saved me time and I did not regret much when the whole thing (for any reason) had to be redone.

I use Corel in several layers to know where the trace cutting, jumpers and components go. Simple and effective.
 
Nothing like PCB, but lake of CNC makes me go for other alternatives. my second favorite is strip board, I like transferring the circuit from schematic to the board and enjoy solving any problem arise.
 
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A few more notes. First I want to say that I have not made a board in about a year.

I am a bit on the lazy size. If I make a PCB I end up with a nice up to date schematic. Even if I make a few 'adjustments' to the circuit they are obvious. The id and rev number on the PCB links it back to the schematic.

I use the pulsar photo transfer system but cheat and used(ed) a CNC to drill the holes. The first PCB may take some time with layout but you get your time back in spades building REV 2. A lot of the boards I made were for teaching so I often needed multiple boards.

After making boards for a while it got to the point that if I started hand wiring a board I would get a bit into it and then switch to making a pcb because it was less painful.

To each his own.
 
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I would suggest that PCB's aren't really suitable for "one offs", but if you're making a number of the same design then make a prototype on veroboard (to confirm it works), then design a PCB for the multiple versions of it.
 
Depends on how much work you want to put into that one off Nigel. If you can nail down a good concrete process for laser printer circuit board etching you can route and throw together a PCB virtually as fast as stripboard, and the final layout will always be more compact.
 
Depends on how much work you want to put into that one off Nigel. If you can nail down a good concrete process for laser printer circuit board etching you can route and throw together a PCB virtually as fast as stripboard, and the final layout will always be more compact.

It probably takes as long just to drill the holes :D
 
time spent is perhaps same or more with homebrewing pcb. it is only question of liking
 
Since I started building electronics last year, I have used Veroboard which has single copper pads (aka "perfboard"?).

I have done schematics and board layouts with Eagle. It's very handy for perfboard too - just place the components nicely to minimize wires crossing each other, and then manually route wires to 0.1" grid. Then I print a mirror image of the layout, which makes building the board quite easy - just follow the layout and put the components into right holes, and it will work.

Of course it's labour intensive to cut, twist and solder all those wires between components when using perfboard, but it's okay when doing only one board. I have managed to make my boards look reasonably neat by carefully placing the components, so they aren't randomly sticking out skewed after soldering.

Making PCBs at home requires several kind of equipment, and I haven't been interested of it so far, and besides there's not much room for that stuff in my small apartment. Ordering real PCBs from those websites can be expensive, especially for bigger boards. So, perfboard has been the best choice for me.
 
For prototypes with through-hole components, frequencies < ~40MHz, stripboard/veroboard is just fine.

The stripboard layout lends itself very well to designing a PCB, with strips going on one axis, and components (usually) going the other way. Tracks can easily be cut, and jumpers/wires added anywhere you wish. Very easy for DIP packages (jumpers can go under chips too!). You can even use SMT passives, 1206/0805 resistors and caps on the underside. Whilst theres the classic 'strips' you can also get 'tripad', which is just stripboard with cuts between holes every three holes. Saves cutting tracks, can can mean lots of jumpers to make 'long tracks', ones that are more than 3 holes long (line power/ground lines).

As most stripboard/veroboard is made with crude FR2 paper substrate, it may not be fully robust and not ideal for medium frequencies signals, but its very easy to cut/machine/file, its cheap, and I have tons of the stuff. Holes in these are usually 'punched', rather than drilled, so they might not be perfectly aligned, but generally good enough for anything. You can of course get FR4 stripboard, more expensive, but much stronger, and as the holes are 'drilled', they are generally very precise and clean. Better for higher frequency signals. These are often tinned as well, for extra durability as theres no bare copper to corode. My colleague uses this stuff exclusively for prototypes because he says it looks more professional, and won't warp/break in industrial gear.

For > 3/4 circuits, or with extensive SMT components (such as SOIC, SSOP, DFN etc..) then having a PCB made is much easier and cheaper in the long run. For prototypes you can add extra pads, tracks, footprints and 'cutting tracks', to your design to make modification easier. Often my first prototype, if there is any spare board space, it will be filled with these, as well as 'double footprints' which give one the option of using the same part with a different package. Test pads are also handy, especially if they have holes, so wires can be inserting for testing, or external modifications like adding a smaller board for corrections.

There are many half measures, between pure stripboard, and a full double-sided PCB with silkscreen and solder mask. These include using stripboard, but with SMT adapters, or prebuilt modules (I must have around 200 breadboard modules for this..), to single sided DIY PCB's using toner transfer, all the way to manufacturer prototype PCB's, that have no silk screen, no solder mask, and basic outline routing. The last tend to be fairly cheap and avilable in smaller quantities than full PCB's.

Depending on complexity, application (is it going to be shaken about?) and parts usage, if you can, I would just go with stripboard for a proof-of-concept. You can go from an idea, to a schem to a working board in an afternoon, then have more time to make modifications to the circuit based on measurements. parts can easily be removed if needs be for the next prototype, meaning you've only spent a couple of bucks on the board itself. Next up after that would be a quick prototype service.

DIY PCb's I can only recommend if you make a LOT of one-off's which have some SMT (less holes to drill) and applications where frequency, power, and size are strict. I've made many, its always a pain drilling, cleaninge etc.. so as a 'half measure' I often make modules for SMT's, with a bulk of awkward circuitry, broken out to 0.1" spaced pins to solder onto stripboard which can be used to add standard pitched through-hole devices.

Its always good to take pride in ones work, to admire the finished board. I have seen some shocking prototypes that have worked wonderfully but look awful, and were almost impossible to modify. If you have space on stripboard, space things out, add test points, reserve area's if you think you'll need some extra circuitry in there, and whilst it won't be small, or perhaps good looking, it'll serve you well until you're completely satisfied with it.

Probably said too much there... but I've been prototyping for half my life :(
 
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