triac control of european Motor 230 vac

[grainstovesman]

I have a problem that I hope someone can help me with. We received a European Pellet Stove that operates on 230 vac 50 hz. We have hooked it up to a grounded step up transformer that takes 110 vac 60 hz and provides the unit with 230 vac 60 hz.
All seems to work well except for some timing issues that we have under control, but the 1 thing we can't seem to get our head around is the fan motor that supply's the air for combustion. This is the only device in the unit that has speed control, all the rest are on off devices.
The fan is an EBM Pabst R2E180-AU01-19 ... I know that doesn't mean much but simply it's a 230 vac 50 hz 85 watt - 2400 rpm motor that drives a set of fan blades.
The drawing that I have is one I would like to show here but I am new to the Forum and don't know how to paste a picture. Anyway I will try my best to describe it. Pretty simple actually .... a blue wire marked - L is connected internally to 2 windings within the motor. the windings are parrallel.. each lead comminjg out of the winding are marked as follows black wire marked - N and a brown wire connected to a capacitor . the other end of the capacitor then connects to the black wire at point - N - .
Confussed ?
Any way ... when I measure voltages I get some unexpected readings.
Black to blue - 47 volts
Brown to Blue - 40 volts
Brown to black - 47 volts

I should be getting 87 volts to the motor... ( the speed it should be going )

My thought ( after checking all grounds and connections ) is that the manufacturer is using a phase angle control scheme designed for 50 hz and by supplying a different frequency , in this case 60 hz ..........I have phase angle problems that are causing the problem.

Any body got any ideas ?

Thanks

Chris

 

[BrownOut]

Did you say what the problem is, besides strange readings? Is the fan not turning?

 

[grainstovesman]

Sorry ... The motor is turning but running half the speed ( not exact measurement ) .

chris

 

[BrownOut]

Did you measure the output of the transformer with the fan connected and running?

 

[grainstovesman]

Yes ..the voltage to the unit is 220 vac ..the voltages to the motor are as I mentioned ... the more I think of it ..the more I am getting convinced that it's to do with changing the designed board operation from 50 hz to 60 hz and the design of the triac driver for the motor being a phase shift speed control.

Chris

 

[BrownOut]

Tough problem. It would be good if you could 'scope the motor voltage. You won't get an accurate reading with a DMM if the waveform is being triac controlled.

 

[Boncuk]

Hi,

first off, where do you get the 60Hz mains in Europe?

Secondly, what type of fan is it? Please refer to the attached images. (You can read the type by holding the mouse pointer on the image.)

And finally, the brand's name is Papst, not Pabst. The latter resides in Rome.

If you have a user's manual for the device please check if the fan is designed to two speed.

Boncuk

 

[grainstovesman]

I am in Canada not Europe .. the device is from europe ... I have the data sheet on it ... it is a 230 vac fan ... the traics control the speed ..

 

[Boncuk]

I am in Canada not Europe .. the device is from europe ... I have the data sheet on it ... it is a 230 vac fan ... the traics control the speed ..

Nice to know you are in Canada.

It would also be nice to know what type of fan you have to deal with.

I can only get specifications of the particular fan motor if I know the type.
RE180-AU01-19 is not in the list. It must have been a customer specified one.

How many triacs does the circuit use?

Boncuk

 

[MikeMl]

Ignoring the Triac speed control, the motor you describe is a standard "capacitor-start, capacitor-run" type of motor with two stator windings. The capacitor is in series with one stator winding, in which the current leads the current in the stator winding without the capacitor. The phase lead in the one winding vs the lagging phase in the other winding creates a rotating magnetic vector inside the motor, which induces current into the shorted turns in the squirrel-cage rotor and causes it to rotate.

The triac speed control just reduces the overall current in the windings, increasing the slippage at low currents, slowing the motor.

 

[grainstovesman]

Mike : Thanks for the info ... I have 1 question though ... if you have a triac control curcuit that designed to run a 230 vac ..50 cycle motor and you change your supply to a 220 vac 60 cycle how will it alter the motor ?

 

[Boncuk]

The rpm depends on the number of poles and the frequency. Changing from 50 to 60Hz the motor will run (theoretically) 1.2 times faster. Since there is always a lag it will probably reduce to 0.8.

Boncuk

 

[MikeMl]

Mike : Thanks for the info ... I have 1 question though ... if you have a triac control curcuit that designed to run a 230 vac ..50 cycle motor and you change your supply to a 220 vac 60 cycle how will it alter the motor ?

I would expect the motor to turn 6/5 faster on 60Hz. US and Canadian line voltage is 240V, where are you getting 220V? Anyway, the line voltage difference wouldn't make any difference to the motor.

 

[BrownOut]

where are you getting 220V?

He's using a step-up transformer (original post)