speakers

[jpanhalt]

Presumably, as you avoided the question, you have NEVER seen one wired differently?.

Boy, you just don't let go, do you. I do not live on ETO. I was out at my farm. We are having a beautiful, early Spring day.

Direct to your question, yes, I have wired speakers in my homes -- maybe a dozen or two at most over the years. I made no effort to inspect speakers wired by others. I found fulfillment in life doing something I believed was more important.

But I don't see why that is pertinent to your claim that there is a firm standard for how speakers are labeled. If there is such a standard, surely someone with your great experience wiring speakers should be able to find it.

John

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Boy, you just don't let go, do you. I do not live on ETO. I was out at my farm. We are having a beautiful, early Spring day.

I don't see the relevance of your weather (but I'm pleased it's nice for you - we could do with some of that here), nor does it explain why you can reply, yet ignore the sole relevant question?.

Direct to your question, yes, I have wired speakers in my homes -- maybe a dozen or two at most over the years. I made no effort to inspect speakers wired by others. I found fulfillment in life doing something I believed was more important.

Still completely avoiding the question - have you ever seen any speakers wired the wrong way round?.

But I don't see why that is pertinent to your claim that there is a firm standard for how speakers are labeled. If there is such a standard, surely someone with your great experience wiring speakers should be able to find it.

I doubt I can find a 'standard' for the labelling of electrolytics or batteries either - but that doesn't mean that such a thing doesn't exist.

If something is labelled 'positive' there's a reason and a meaning - I fail to see what you're trying to achieve by claiming (and advising others) that it doesn't mean what everyone else thinks it means. Or do you perhaps think that on a production line building speakers they have a little man there with a battery checking the polarity of every driver so he can wire it correctly?.

 

[jpanhalt]

Well, if it is that important to you, then this information may offer some insight.

Source = JBL

4000-Series systems; the following models are negative:
4670D 4675C
4675C-4LF 4765C-8LF

5000-Series systems; the following models are negative
5671 5672
5672Bi 5674

Cinema subwoofers; the following models are negative:
4642 4645

Cinema subwoofers; the following models are positive:
3635 4641
4642A 4642A-GS
4645B 4645C

Cinema surround systems: the following models are negative:
8330 8333
8340

Have I ever seen a speaker wired with negative polarity? Don't know. I have never paid it any any attention. The important thing is to have them wired the same. JBL goes on to mention that it is or has converted to the usual practice for most new products. Nevertheless, conventional practice is not a "standard."

Since you have been wiring speakers for quite a while, have you ever wired JBL speakers? That is, prior to 2004. Did you ever check check their polarity?

John

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Since you have been wiring speakers for quite a while, have you ever wired JBL speakers? That is, prior to 2004. Did you ever check check their polarity?

JBL aren't big over here, but now you've actually mentioned an example a quick google finds data about it:

JBL Reverse Polarity

In the golden olden days of speakers, the issue of whether the first motion of a cone was inward or outward, or polarity, was not uniform. Eventually it became standardized. Most speakers have an initial outward movement. When JBL started making speakers, they arbitrarily adopted reverse polarity and their speakers had an initial inward movement. This continued until JBL developed their musical instrument series speakers which used ¼” jacks. The use of these jacks required that JBL change their polarity to fit into what had become industry standards. Therefore, many of the older JBL speakers have reverse polarity, while newer models match what has become the industry standard.

And here:

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2013/03/JBL_TechNoteN1V12C_v5.pdf

Where it also refers to the standard practice - and lists the relevant agencies.

 

[ronsimpson]

Now that we have worked out way through the + and - of speakers; Crack open some two or three way speaker box and look at the polarity of the tweeter compared to the base speaker. (if the components come from different manufactures)

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Now that we have worked out way through the + and - of speakers; Crack open some two or three way speaker box and look at the polarity of the tweeter compared to the base speaker. (if the components come from different manufactures)

Nothing to check - it's common practice to have the tweeter reversed due to phase shift in the crossover.

However, does it make any difference at all? - I've never been able to tell any, nor know anyone who has.

Even if you phase reversed just ONE of the tweeters, I doubt you could tell any difference?.

Any other thoughts on this anyone?, or know how it came to be?.

 

[crutschow]

Conceivably reversing the phase between two stereo tweeters could affect the blending of the stereo sound and cause more of a hole-in-the-middle effect, but I've never tested that to see if it's audible.

 

[vtech]

WoW, the clash of opinions.....

Coming from an extensive repair background in consumer electronics here is my two cents;

While changing speaker polarity may not seem important in theory, the real life experience is very different. Granted, with smaller speakers it is not significant but when talking about woofers, there is a world of difference especially as the power output is increased. While the out-of-phase issue in a speaker system is valid, it will make a difference in dampening the bass response.

I suggest anyone to get A woofer speaker and reverse the polarity & listen to it. It is even more critical in sub woofer speakers. Ever seen a vice coil damage bottoming out against the magnet? Or even worse with servo speaker system it can be a disaster.

Noticed the name "Monst.." was mentioned.... while it is not a bad product, in reality it is another overpriced "Hyped" sales tool w/ hefty commisions.... but hey it sure helped out the bottom line.

 

[audioguru]

If a crossover is even-order Butterworth highpass and lowpass and if the woofer and tweeter are in phase then they form a notch at the crossover frequency. A simple fix was to connect one speaker (the tweeter) with reversed phase then it forms a +3dB peak at the crossover frequency. Of couse the notch or peak can be heard.

Therefore the Linkwitz-Riley response was designed then if the crossover is even-order highpass and lowpass and the tweeter has its phase reversed then the response is absolutely flat through the crossover frequency.

 

[ronsimpson]

Using a microphone and o-scope you can see phase cancellation in a speaker. The frequency response has holes in it due to "time of flight" from different speakers. Where you stand in the room makes a big difference. Your ear is forgiving.

You might have a big hole at 1khz that a signal signal generator can find. Music has enough randomness that your ears do not find the hole.