Spark Generator

[alireza]

Hi everyone!

I built a circuit to generate controllable sparks. I want to produce spark between a probe and a metalic surface. It sould have audible sound.
I have used a 12V motorcylce Battery and an ignition coil of a car. A microcontroller produces some pulses to the base of a 2N3055 transistor. 2N3055 turn on an off the primary of the coil and the desirable sound is produced between the probe and the surface.

BUT, MY PROBLEM IS:

The volume of this circuit is very much. I want to reduce the dimension of my circuit but the battery and the coil is very huge.

Is there any other circuit can solve my problem?

 

[wizard]

Hi everyone!

I built a circuit to generate controllable sparks. I want to produce spark between a probe and a metalic surface. It sould have audible sound.
I have used a 12V motorcylce Battery and an ignition coil of a car. A microcontroller produces some pulses to the base of a 2N3055 transistor. 2N3055 turn on an off the primary of the coil and the desirable sound is produced between the probe and the surface.

BUT, MY PROBLEM IS:

The volume of this circuit is very much. I want to reduce the dimension of my circuit but the battery and the coil is very huge.

Is there any other circuit can solve my problem?

Recently I have been working on a PWM sound generator based upon TL494 chip.

I used a TV flyback transformer instead of an ignition coil, so the size was reasonable. You need a powerful power source for a such device. so you have to use a massive battery. I used my regulated power supply and the device drew more than 3A at several situations.

 

[Analog]

Hi everyone!

I built a circuit to generate controllable sparks. I want to produce spark between a probe and a metalic surface. It sould have audible sound.
I have used a 12V motorcylce Battery and an ignition coil of a car. A microcontroller produces some pulses to the base of a 2N3055 transistor. 2N3055 turn on an off the primary of the coil and the desirable sound is produced between the probe and the surface.

BUT, MY PROBLEM IS:

The volume of this circuit is very much. I want to reduce the dimension of my circuit but the battery and the coil is very huge.

Is there any other circuit can solve my problem?

Hello Alireza (Hal-eh-shoma chetoreh?)

Could you please post a schematic? You may be able to reduce the volume of the circuit by using an ignition coil from a small engine, such as from a motorcycle or small 4-cyl engine. How far does the spark need to jump? Electric fence circuits for animals use small transformers and spark the way you want. Perhaps a small xenon transformer would be in order for small sparks?

Let us know.

 

[Willbe]

I built a circuit to generate controllable sparks. I want to produce spark between a probe and a metalic surface. It sould have audible sound.

Any coil whose current is interrupted will make a spark. The audible part probably depends on the energy dumped by the spark. The energy stored in an inductor is (1/2)·L·I².
I know the spark made by old time car ignition coils had a "pop-pop" sound. A lawnmower coil may also have this but you can't hear it over the engine noise.

 

[alireza]

Hello Alireza (Hal-eh-shoma chetoreh?)

Could you please post a schematic? You may be able to reduce the volume of the circuit by using an ignition coil from a small engine, such as from a motorcycle or small 4-cyl engine. How far does the spark need to jump? Electric fence circuits for animals use small transformers and spark the way you want. Perhaps a small xenon transformer would be in order for small sparks?

Let us know.

Hi Analog (moteshakeram)
Here is the schematic:

**broken link removed**

At the first, I used a motorcycle coil. But, I dont like its very tiny an quiet spark.
I want the spark jumps about 1mm but very audible and sharp.

 

[Analog]

Consider some of these:

 

[wizard]

Hi Analog (moteshakeram)
Here is the schematic:

**broken link removed**

At the first, I used a motorcycle coil. But, I dont like its very tiny an quiet spark.
I want the spark jumps about 1mm but very audible and sharp.

Hey Ali,

I think I am misunderstood of your goal now?!

Are you trying to make a PLASMA ARC speaker? If not, so please let us know what you desire to do exactly ?

anyhow you can use a TV or a monitor flyback transformer to generate a nice arc. today most of them have a built-in Tripler or casked which multiples the high voltage by factor of 3. The built-in Tripler reduces the size of the flyback too.

You can see a typical picture for one.

P.s. you have to know that The sharpness and the audibility of the arc is proportional to the frequency of the system.

 

[GonzoEngineer]

A word of advice......keep this aparratus far away from other electronic equipment or computers.

Keyboard and mouse cables are huge antennas!

I know this from experience!

 

[alireza]

Hey Ali,

I think I am misunderstood of your goal now?!

Are you trying to make a PLASMA ARC speaker? If not, so please let us know what you desire to do exactly ?

I think its better to say:
My goal is producing a sound ON the metalic surfaces. Formerly, I thought that making spark on metalic surfaces is a good solution. but now I have many problems with the dimesion and of course, the electromagnic noise

I want to produce the sound on the surfaces with a probe and calculate the travelling distance to three microphones. thereby, the coordinate of that point on the surface is specified. I call this project "Sonic CMM".

 

[wizard]

I think its better to say:
My goal is producing a sound ON the metalic surfaces. Formerly, I thought that making spark on metalic surfaces is a good solution. but now I have many problems with the dimesion and of course, the electromagnic noise

I want to produce the sound on the surfaces with a probe and calculate the travelling distance to three microphones. thereby, the coordinate of that point on the surface is specified. I call this project "Sonic CMM".

I am not sure of your aim yet? Your explanation seems to be vague for me!

Do you want the metallic surface to vibrate due to the arc and crenates the audible sound, or you want the Arc itself to vibrate and generates audible sound (Due to the expanding and scrunching of the air molecules?)

I don’t know anything about a 'Sonic CMM', does anybody have any info of a such system??

Maybe I could help you out to remove the noise and/or the dimension problem if you response to my questions.


P.s. You can PM me your exact problem if you'd like.

 

[alireza]

Do you want the metallic surface to vibrate due to the arc and crenates the audible sound, or you want the Arc itself to vibrate and generates audible sound (Due to the expanding and scrunching of the air molecules?)

No, my mean for the surface is a surface of a metalic and solid part. I just want a sound is produced on the surface of that part by means of something like spark (or maybe other device)

I don’t know anything about a 'Sonic CMM', does anybody have any info of a such system??

Coordinate Measuring Machines (CMM) are used for measuring the shape of objects and controlling their quality. They are in different types. A new method for construction a CMM that I intend to work on is using sound. For finding the coordinate of a point on the surface of a part, it is produced a sound on that point with a spark probe. This sound is received by three microphones that are placed in the specified position on the table. By measuring the ambient speed of sound and the time between the start of spark and receiving it by microphones, the distance between them could be calculated. The software of this apparatus must analyse these data and automatically calculate the coordinate of the spark point.

here is a schematic of my idea:
**broken link removed**

 

[Menticol]

The voltage elevator of a Photocopier is what you need. A bit bulky, but the wire that feeds the toner generates a loud -high pitched- continuous spark when paced very close to another metal contact.

More important, doesn't open a bit or hole on the metal

 

[alireza]

The voltage elevator of a Photocopier is what you need. A bit bulky, but the wire that feeds the toner generates a loud -high pitched- continuous spark when paced very close to another metal contact.

Menticol!
I want to control the sound by a microcontroller. some pulses (for example, 3)from the micro, produce Corresponding sound (ie, 3 beeps). The continuous spark isnt suitable for this aim.

Is your suggestion useful for this application?

 

[Menticol]

Menticol!
I want to control the sound by a microcontroller. some pulses (for example, 3)from the micro, produce Corresponding sound (ie, 3 beeps). The continuous spark isnt suitable for this aim.

Is your suggestion useful for this application?

Oh sorry, I did'nt mean to say that, language mistake: I mean high frecuency, so the spark is heard like a loud - continuous high pitched beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep, not the metallic bang! bang! of the ignition coil or a stun gun

But I think if you add a transistor or something to isolate / connect the test probe at the desired pulses, it may be suitable

The photocopier circuit is not small like a pen, but I guess your machine will be workbench-mounted, right?

 

[Roff]

Could you use a solenoid in your probe to tap the surface?

 

[alireza]

Could you use a solenoid in your probe to tap the surface?

Hi Roff
Very Good Idea

But I think depending on the material of the surface, intensity of the sound maybe variable.

or, is the produced sound so load like a spark?

or, does this impact injure the surface?

or ....?

 

[Roff]

Hi Roff
Very Good Idea

But I think depending on the material of the surface, intensity of the sound maybe variable.

or, is the produced sound so load like a spark?

or, does this impact injure the surface?

or ....?

Impact may damage the surface. Big sparks may damage the surface.
You could make the hammer out of a material which is softer than the surface, but then it would wear out eventually,

 

[alireza]

Hi Roff

I thougth about your idea very much. If I hit on the surface by means of a hammer, is the sound raised from that point exactly? or it extends through the surface?

It seems this sound isnt produced from that point accurately

 

[wizard]

Well, I read a little bit of CMM machines at wikipedia.
Please somebody correct me if I am wrong; those devices use a narrow beam to detect the dimensions of the objects. The poster wants to use sound created by the arc to detect the surfaces and so the dimensions of the objects, right?

Ali, An Arc generates sound or noise by air molecules not by the connected surfaces. I mean if you want to use a sounded spark to calculate the distance between the surface and the probe (i.e. the start point of the spark) then you should consider that the sound is produced at the whole points of the spark not just at the surface. Besides did you consider that the audible sound is not narrow for your job? Why don't you use ultrasonic for the said task?

 

[Roff]

Hi Roff

I thougth about your idea very much. If I hit on the surface by means of a hammer, is the sound raised from that point exactly? or it extends through the surface?

It seems this sound isnt produced from that point accurately

You are probably correct in thinking that a spark would be an almost ideal point source of sound, whereas the sound of an impact would radiate from the entire surface, depending on how mechanically damped it is. I think that the peak amplitude would still be highly localized to the point of impact, so you could still locate it accurately.
I am not advocating this method. I was just trying to give you something else to think about.