Political Correctness,Trolls & Experiance

[tcmtech]

Given the more recent events and situations that have gone on here and an apparent shift in the activity and direction of the forum I have had some observations and questions arise and feel that they maybe are shared by others or may need to be clarified or addressed by those of us here.
First off I do not have a overall problem with this site. I do not have a problem with the moderators and how most things are handled here.
As has been pointed out by many members ETO is well ran and maintained when compared to many other sites.

My intentions here are to bring a few concerns I and some others have and hopefully openly and maturely address some things that are apparently real issues without, at this point, real answers.

Political correctness.
What guidelines and honest boundaries are there? This site is enjoyed by thousands of viewers world wide. How does anyone say anything without someone some place not being able to find a way to be offend by it?
They dont and can't.
I am sorry but full political correctness is not a correct way to conduct yourself and still be able to accomplish anything. It diminishes us all. How do you deem who gets to say what and get away with it? I am at a loss here. What someone says may extremely offend another person but yet not have the slightest meaning to someone else. And what context can that word or phrase be used in?
Who will decide on what is or isn't correct and what can or cannot be used in certain contexts?


Trolls.
Thats right those pinheaded, little minded, pain in the butt, sub human creatures that put forth great efforts to undermine and ruin what ever they can get hold of. Or just that certain type of bad posters. Your choice on what defines one.
There seems to be a noticeable increase in these types of bad posters around here. I have seen and dealt with them many times and so has everyone else here as well.
What is the accepted and most effective way of dealing with one or more when they move in on a thread? When someone makes a post lately that is intended to be helpful but does contain information that could be intentionally misused and or could produce a potentially dangerous condition or illegal action someone trolls it with non relevant or sub common sense rants about legality, safety or application issues.

I understand we should just ignore them but and they just keep repeating them selves until someone drops to their level. Often times that just gets the OP and or the person who made the reply in question bad rep points for answering them anyway.
I have had on a few occasions gotten hate Pm's sent to me by zero posters. Thats right some one actually signed up with ETO and then PMed me just to chew me out about an unrealistic 'what if' problem they had with my post or comment in language they would never be allowed to use in the threads. (more likely cowardly regulars under false names) A super troll with cloaking abilities.
I should have contacted admin at the time but felt no real need being they were zero post sources.


Experience.
where is it going? There is a noticeable drop in the high intelligence and experience replies that typically came from the big dogs around here who have spent life times learning what they know. Where did they go?
Did the trolls drive them off or are they just out on vacation?
I am not claiming to be one of them but I know I have dropped back on answering simply because dont care to waste thread space on troll beatings. Some days its fun but I prefer to only do it on threads I created. But overall it somewhat diminishes the site and often ruins potentially good and informative threads.

Another related issue I have seen and suspected is this.
Getting attacked by a troll is too much for many newbies to take and they drop out after a few posts because of it. I hope I am not the only one who has seen that or was at least given strong reasons to believe thats likely why a newbie with a great question or idea never came back again. And for all we know he may have been someone with life long knowledge and experience that would have happily shared it with everyone.



These things are what have been on my mind as of lately. I hope others can shed some light in these topics in a open, honest and professional way without hiding behind weak reasonings that just support doing nothing or letting things become worse, or just maliciously trolling this thread to pieces.

Thank you.

 

[ericgibbs]

These things are what have been on my mind as of lately. I hope others can shed some light in these topics in a open, honest and professional way without hiding behind weak reasonings that just support doing nothing or letting things become worse, or just maliciously trolling this thread to pieces.

hi tcm,
I must admit whats getting up my nose a little are these points.

You have been a member for only about 6 months.

This Forum has been running succesfully for a number of years, supported by long serving members.

You want to make changes, I dont have a problem with that.
What I do have a problem with is that you want others to support you in your problems with the running of the Forum.

As I said in my earlier post if you have a problem with how the Forum is run, take it up with ElectroMaster and let the rest of us get on with the technical side of the Forums.

So basically what I am suggesting is, please stop stirring the pot.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Can you point to a thread that stands out as an example?

 

[tcmtech]

Sorry. I thought I was in the feedback and comments section. So where should I have posted this?

You have been a member for only about 6 months.

How long do I need to be a member here before I can ask about what others opinions or thoughts are regarding present and past forum direction and operations?

As I said in my earlier post if you have a problem with how the Forum is run, take it up with ElectroMaster and let the rest of us get on with the technical side of the Forums.

See paragraph two.

I am not looking to be rude but am just curious as to how some things should be handled now. I seem to see a change taking place and am looking for opinions as to how these topics have been addressed in the past. I am assuming they are common topics any large international chat site has to deal with. I am still new to how this stuff is properly handled on places like this.

If asking questions and wanting some views from other members is wrong then clearly I am mistaken or I did a bad job conveying my thoughts and curiosities here and I apologize.

 

[3v0]

Of late everything here seems to be a confrontation.

I have been doing my best to derail this train wreck.

In the other thread I asked that we let EM have a go at the problems but here we are again !

I even said please.

3v0

 

[tcmtech]

sorry.
I guess I am just grouchy this week. My bad.
Delete this thread if it will help.

 

[giftiger_wunsch]

I understand your points tcmtech, but I think you're exaggerating a bit. Your first point: I've only had an altercation of this nature once in my brief time using these forums; someone seemed to take something I said the wrong way and tried to provoke me further in retaliation. If you say something which has clearly offended someone, then all you can really do is apologise and explain that it was not meant to be offensive. If there's some sort of retaliation then best just to ignore it. I agree it's very difficult to lay down guidelines for what is acceptable etc.

Your second point: I think you're being a little bit over-sensitive there. I admit I have seen several threads where it has turned into a slightly off-topic conversation which doesn't really add much to the OP's original post, but in most cases the OPs have joined in with the discussion or moved the focus back to their question. I don't think there are many real 'trolls' in here, and most of the discussions which tend to cause this type of discussion have been questions such as "how can I destroy this device without the owner noticing?" or "what's the answer to this series of homework questions i haven't bothered to attempt?"


Your third point: nothing to be done about that. Like many other people, I frequent these forums to get help when I need it, and to share what I've learned with others who might benefit from it. I make no apologies for the fact that I lack the experience needed to help with more complicated issues, and all the time people are willing to help me with my problems, I intend to continue to ask for help from these forums when I am stuck with an issue.

 

[DirtyLude]

I've been here for a long time and it's just about the same here as it was. Actually ElectroMaster is more active now, possibly because of the popularity of the board going up. I admin a board that is larger than this one, that's been going on since the late 90's and forum activity goes up and down, old members take breaks and come back everything changes, yet still remains the same.

One issue, unfortunately is that in any technical forum the real hardcore people like to have a smaller userbase where they are known and the signal to noise ratio is lower.

I'd have to agree that 6 months probably isn't enough experience to post an "OMG, the board is going to crap!" thread.

 

[tcmtech]

My comments here do not reflect ETO overall as whole.
These are very much some what random but regular incidences. I am probably being a bit over sensitive I do tend to be that way at times.

The ratio of good to bad threads and responses is very high here. As so is the ratio of good to bad posts and comments. I have just unfortunately seen in my general browsing a number of rather unprovoked incidences with a number of threads and posts. I think I recall the one you are referring to.
And yes some were likely based on misunderstandings or lack of information at hand.
Right now I tend think the over all mood around here has seemed to be growing more tense and confrontational just as 3Vo had mentioned.

I have no problem with the fact many here dont have the knowledge and experience of some. Thats never been my issue. I had to learn what I know at one point in time as well and there are countless topics here I flat out avoid because they are way over my head!
Anyone who is making an honest attempt learn or to pass along what they know is great!

I am just trying to get a feel for what others see and feel as well. If I am the only one who's thinking these things well then in fact it is just me and I clearly need to rethink how I am seeing and interpreting peoples actions and intentions.

Some days we all ask dumb questions with good intentions that end up being misunderstood. Or bring up subjects with good intentions that only make a situation worse.
Perhaps I have just had a bad run of them lately?

 

[tcmtech]

'd have to agree that 6 months probably isn't enough experience to post an "OMG, the board is going to crap!" thread.
__________________

I hope thats not what this reads like!

Rather as having been here for 6 months I am curious as to how it does drift and adjust as time goes by.

The growing popularity issue is a good one but still because of the international traffic steadily increasing I am wondering about how we as members can have the nesisary preparedness for when such problems do become more common.

The bigger and more popular this site gets the more honest to goodness just to be a irritating troll types there will be showing up here.
How do we in general deal with them?
Same as with the who's offended by what issues?
And the 'Its illegal where I live therefore no one should speak or discus it' issues that create the long drawn out arguments in other wise good threads?
(And how do I make sure I am not continually being one of them? )

I really dont think there will be full answers to any of these questions. Hence my openly asking for opinions!

And I realize from time to time this is lesser subject that will continue to come up just the same.

This time I guess I got to be the token whiner.

 

[3v0]

Exit stage left

sorry.
I guess I am just grouchy this week. My bad.
Delete this thread if it will help.

There is a lot of that going around.

3v0

 

[DirtyLude]

I hope thats not what this reads like!

That's what it sounded like to me, at first read, and you do complain about the safety n**i's all the time. Sorry if I took it for more than it was.

 

[tcmtech]

Not a problem.
I admit I do get wound up at times when the same old rehash gets continually brought up with rather negative attitude attached to it.
Its my nature. And I think we all have similar things that we let irritate us a bit too much for our own good some days.

Pick a subject you do every day and have done for years. Possibly one you have above average knowledge and training in and do have enough understanding of to know what parts of it are in fact dangerous and which parts someone with reasonable basic knowledge of that subject could handle and would benefit from knowing how its done.

Now have people who show they have no experience and very little applicable knowledge in that area keep telling you and everyone you are working with that what you are doing is unsafe, illegal, or wrong even though your well within the realistic safe areas.

At first you wont mind and most times you wont mind. But still it does wear on you a little more each time.

Have a bad day or just have the wrong person do it at the wrong time and then see what becomes your issue when the next or same person does it again.

I will make an attempt to lay off on the implied stereo type references more.

 

[kchriste]

The next time someone advises someone to do something illegal, dangerous or wrong, that can harm themselves or their equipment, I will point out their error in judgment. Whether they take my advice or not is up to them, but I will voice my opinion where I see fit.
I used to be like you, when I was in my 20's, scoffing at any mention of safety. Now that I'm 20 years older, and have much less time to actually lose, I am much more careful. Half a lifetime of close calls will do that to you.
I think this board strikes a pretty good balance between censorship and flame war anarchy. You have to draw the line somewhere. Where is a matter of opinion.

 

[giftiger_wunsch]

The next time someone advises someone to do something illegal, dangerous or wrong, that can harm themselves or their equipment, I will point out their error in judgment. Whether they take my advice or not is up to them, but I will voice my opinion where I see fit.

Frankly I've seen a couple of questions which should simply be removed and left unanswered because they blatantly break the law and/or endanger lives. The recent threads asking how to build an EMP generator and use it to destroy consumer goods, for example.

Now have people who show they have no experience and very little applicable knowledge in that area keep telling you and everyone you are working with that what you are doing is unsafe, illegal, or wrong even though your well within the realistic safe areas.

If you don't want comments on what you're doing, why are you posting it on forums? And if you only want comments from people who will agree with what you're doing, again why are you posting it on forums? Personally I don't see what you're complaining about. If you make a post on the forums you're inviting others to comment on it. If you don't like their opinions, then tough luck.

 

[HarveyH42]

Usually the warnings about dangerous and/or illegal devices, is a gentle way of saying this isn't a terrorist-friendly website. Perhaps the OP doesn't plan on doing any real harm to anyone, except himself, but his circuitry will be found all over the internet.

I am kind of trollish when it involves harming and torturing animals, or pet owners, who think they are going to do something nice, but aren't. Most recently, a guy wanted to hook up a huge fan in his truck, to blow air on his dogs, while he worked. He was also from Florida, so I know it's hot, and how much help a fan would really be. Was just bad for the dogs, just so he could circumvent the law about leaving pets in a vehicle without circulating air.

Experience members not post as much? Perhaps they are working on their own project (for a change). Sometimes people need to focus more on other things. The internet isn't usually everyone's highest priority.

Six months? You've missed some good fights and arguments. Really isn't that big of a deal, and it's healthy for people to vent their anger, or express their opinions passionately. It's only words on a computer screen, no real harm is done, and we always have the option of not clicking the link when we've read enough. The words only carry whatever power the reader chooses to give them. You don't have to be offended by anything you read.

 

[tcmtech]

Thanks for the feed back!
Seriously this helps me sort out some questions I had.

What can I say I get a mood going once and awhile and dont realize it carries over and affects others around me as well.
It would appear my bad week of work affected how I interact with everyone here more than I realized at the time.

Now that more background information has been shown in regards to other members I see now I am not the only one who has had some more recent rough times.

I dish it out so it only fair I had to take it back for good or bad.
I will lighten up a bit more myself and go from there.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I'm trollish when it comes to certain types of posts...

Poster with little to no experience wants to build from zero a finished product that's also available as a retail product because they think it'll be cheaper...

eg: UPS, police lights

I respond with "just buy it" of course if the OP wants to learn then they have to walk before they can run.

When the project has letal potential

eg: UPS, Grid Tie Inverter (especially so as it can kill someone else), Transformerless mains supplies

I often wonder what happened to the hapless toadies that build HV stuff and are never heard from again.

Idiot projects with questionable motives.

eg: Remote detonator, cell phone blocker, destructive to other peoples property

They tend to disappear after a post or two

Poster can disprove science because those silly scientists / government are full of lies

eg: Overunity, HHO, Bendini, perpetual motion

Mostly folks with a little self taught practical knowledge but none of the actual theory.

Poster is probably crazy, missing their medication.

eg: 6ekiN, sretlaW, achcetsM

They usually find themselves banned after a short while, they are fun to read though.

Almost left out my favorite:
Final year school projects where the poster has no clue and/or has put in zero effort on their part.

Fail. Is it really OK to pass off someone elses project as your own. Somebody has to flip burgers.

 

[giftiger_wunsch]

I entirely agree. Most of these categories of questions should be simply removed. In particular there seem to be an increasing number of people with questions like "i nd prjct due in 3 dyz, cn u do it 4 me?". I much prefer the other type of project questions, the ones which go "My project is due in 4 months and I'm stuck on this particular component... here's what I've got so far"

 

[be80be]

I helped some one with a project did most of the code sent them all the parts they needed to put it together. I figured they learn something wrong . I learned a lot.

Boys a forums going to be a place to slap back after all it's just a key board and the net no ones going to hit you threw your LCD LOL so people will do some dumb things.

You can't fix stupid. We just need to post helpful replies