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New Safety guidelines for ETO

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tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Safety is always a realistic issue here but some times the safety scare mongers and the safety Nazi’s get a bit carried away. So to properly cover all reasonable safety issues I came up with this safety precautions and implementation disclaimer for electro-tech-online.
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Thank you for joining electro-tech-online. We strive to help and share our world wide collective knowledge as best as we can to help you learn and implement your ideas the best as you can. However there are safety issues that must be addressed before working on any circuits, devices, or conceptual designs you may find posted here. This list of 20 specific rules must be obeyed at all times. Any deviation from them will result in whining, complaining, jealousy, petty bickering and overall upset feelings for some members who think they are the only ones here whose opinions matter.

1; Never use any voltage or current over 0 volts and 0 amps. Any values higher than this can possibly be lethal, start fires, cause unintended RF emissions and other harmful, potentially harmful, or unpredictable things to happen.
2; Never use any type of line power to operate or that can interact with your circuit. It could be fatal or fatal to someone else near or far from you. There are just too many variables to account for. See #1 for allowable and safe working limits.
3; Never use any batteries to operate your circuit. They may leak and poison you or if enough of them are put in series you could be electrocuted. See #1 for allowable working limits.
4; Never use electronics components. They can have sharp points or projections that could cut or poke you. They also often contain harmful compounds known to be dangerous if eaten, smoked, or handled.
5; Never assemble your circuit with solder. Liquid solder is hot and can burn you or short out a circuit if improperly applied.
6; Never use electrical solder. It may contain traces of lead which is known to be poisonous.
7; Never use alternative energy devices of any kind. They are for theory only and must never be used, studied or implemented. Who knows what may happen.
8; Never use a soldering gun. It is hot and can burn you or your property. Plus many pencil type soldering devices could take out an eye if improperly handled. (Also see #2)
9; Never use screws or mechanical fasteners. They are too small to be safe. You could choke on them or someone else could choke on them as well. Many are conductive and could result in your being electrocuted as well.
10; Never use adhesives. They can bond items together in unintended ways. Some are toxic and could pose possible health risks.
Never use hand tools. Many are inherently pointed and sharp. They have known pinch points and can be lethal if misused.
11; Never work on electronics indoors. Stuff could happen.
12; Never work on electronics outdoors. More stuff could happen.
13; Never let others work on electronics. Too much stuff could happen.
14; Never follow the advice of others based on what you have found on line. Unless its safety related.
15; Never use wire or any type of electrical conductor. They can create shock hazards and when in long lengths possible strangulation hazards as well.
16; Never use a circuit board. Some have fragmented or broken edges. They can cut or impart slivers that could become infected and result in death.
17; Never use power tools. Some are line powered. (See #2) Others are cordless and have batteries. ( See #3) They also typically have sharp implements attached to them.
18; Never attempt a do it yourself project regardless of size or simplicity. There are to many unknowns. You could get killed or kill some one else if attempting to do it yourself.
19; Never do anything that is illegal in another country even though it is legal in your own. It will create massive jealousy and could lead to world war.
20; Never submit any useful information to the internet or any other public or private access location. People may try and attempt it which will violate rules 1 – 19.

Thank you for joining our forum and we hope we can help you in any way possible that does not violate said rules.



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Feel free to add any of your own! :)
This is meant in good humor. Unless you have no sense of humor of course! :eek:
Then it may seem provocative and insulting. :(
 
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giftiger_wunsch

New Member
Is there an actual point to this thread other than to demean those who are concerned about genuine safety threats? It seems you spent a reasonable amount of time constructing this "joke": was it worth it?

Just wondering.
 
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tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Actually I was just pissy that day and its a rewrite of a old one I had copied from a former place I worked with that had unrealistic safety goals in mind.
We often never accomplished anything there some days because by the time all safety procedures and check lists were done and in place we had to start packing up and go home. :(

The two people in management with the safety OCD saw no humor in it either. However later on they both got booted for bad management and misuse of company time and money. Go figure. :rolleyes:
 

giftiger_wunsch

New Member
Well there's good safety protocol and then there's paranoia. From what I've seen on these forums, a lot of people here have neither.

Given the post I saw where someone suggested wiring up as many large-value capacitors in parallel as possible, charging them from the mains and dumping the load into a coil wrapped around a consumer product in order to induce a destructive current in its circuitry, I think 'too safety-conscious' is certainly not a term which applies to these forums.
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
Given the post I saw where someone suggested wiring up as many large-value capacitors in parallel as possible, charging them from the mains and dumping the load into a coil wrapped around a consumer product in order to induce a destructive current in its circuitry, I think 'too safety-conscious' is certainly not a term which applies to these forums.
Hey now. I highly resemble that remark! :D
And that continually brings up the issues of what is deemed safe, practical or even realistic for a person to do? Anyone who has had a good electronics applications class would know how a simple capacitive discharge system works. And its just a matter of scale as to what its used for.
So if someone wants to destroy their own stuff in a particular way who am I to judge them for their reasons? They implied its their stuff they are wrecking and as far as I know thats not illegal.;) :)

Same with a good high school or basic college level chemistry classes. I learned about loads of basic chemistry applications and what common house hold chemicals have the same stuff a typical low yield explosive device uses.
SO should chemistry and science classes be banned because someone may figure out that a few off the shelf cleaning products when mixed properly can make a weaker but still potent version of C4? Or should the cleaning products be banned from stores for the same reason? Or more realistically should people already know that just because they can make something like that doesn't mean they need to or have to do it.

Got a hunting rifle? Do you know where theres a public place where people are always at?
Its up to YOU to decide if these two remarks are separate or related.
I know the difference! :D
If a person cant separate rational and reasonable actions intended for positive applications from irrational and unreasonable ones purposely intended to cause great harm to others they have a problem that needs to be addressed not the person who implied how something could be done. :)
 

giftiger_wunsch

New Member
SO should chemistry and science classes be banned because someone may figure out that a few off the shelf cleaning products when mixed properly can make a weaker but still potent version of C4?
No, but I think posts asking for instructions on assembling and/or detonating explosives, for example, should be deleted. And I think the same should apply to the post where an individual asked for help destroying consumer electronics without opening the case; especially as they didn't even offer an explanation as to why they may legally wish to do so, even after their motives were questioned by others replying to the thread. I'd imagine they either wanted to vandalise someone's property, or trick a company into giving a refund by damaging the goods without noticable tampering.

Of course this is speculation, but if there was a legal reason for wanting to do so, why did the OP not mention it?
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
No, but I think posts asking for instructions on assembling and/or detonating explosives, for example, should be deleted.
Check out the web sites and chat rooms dedicated to amateur fire works. They dont seem to have a problem telling some one how to use common items to make stuff that can in fact destroy a large vehicle if used in large enough quantities. (my brother makes amateur fireworks that how I know the plans and information for such stuff is on the web) :D

an individual asked for help destroying consumer electronics without opening the case; especially as they didn't even offer an explanation as to why they may legally wish to do so,
True but typically most people go with minimalist approaches when asking questions or explaining what they want to do. If everyone did a full write up covering every detail they thought about and what ever they intended to do with said information the posts would be pages long.
Most people dont have high speed typing skills and doing a few paragraphs can take them 20 minutes. I know I used to be one and its taken me all year to double my average typing speed and its still slow. :eek:

I'd imagine they either wanted to vandalize someone's property, or trick a company into giving a refund by damaging the goods without noticeable tampering.
What someone does with any type of information is ultimately their responsibility and no one else's. What I and you read about here will inspire us both to try different things and dream up possible applications relating to what that information could open up to us. But still its what each of us does that draws the personal line for whats right and wrong will always be different.

Of course this is speculation, but if there was a legal reason for wanting to do so, why did the OP not mention it?
Exactly. Speculation is both the reason and the answer. The OP may have speculated that its possible to do such a thing and nothing more but just wanted to know if it was actually possible.
Just as I speculate that when ever someone reads something I posted that could be dangerous or misused for harmful intent I still figure they are just asking if it could be done and know better any way than to actually use it with bad intentions in mind. :)

The thing is I dont believe in withholding information because of 'what if' scenarios. To me that just as bad as censorship. Saying some information should never be spoken of or talked about because 'what if' someone concluded they could also use that information for illegal or immoral activities is wrong to me.
Anything created by a human with good intentions can and likely will eventually be misused or applied to a situation with bad intentions by another human.
I have no bad intentions for the information I give out but am fully aware what I may provide could be used that way anyway.
I am just not going to deny the 999 people with good intentions for such information from getting it because that 1 nut in the 1000 may try and do something bad with it. ;)

At least your making me think about this type of stuff though!:)
 

giftiger_wunsch

New Member
Whether or not they choose to use information provided to break the law may ultimately be their responsibility, but I for one wouldn't help someone to do so.
 

BrownOut

Banned
I wonder why it is that I've used power tools for years and was never injured, while lots of professional carpenters I know have missing digits. I think it's because I'm still scared to death of spinning blades, and such things. When you lose your fear, that's when you are in real danger.
 

Nigel Goodwin

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
I wonder why it is that I've used power tools for years and was never injured, while lots of professional carpenters I know have missing digits. I think it's because I'm still scared to death of spinning blades, and such things. When you lose your fear, that's when you are in real danger.
Familiarity breeds contempt!.

However, on the other hand (if you've still got both :D ), a professional carpenter probably does more in a week than you do in a lifetime?.

As someone who spent time attending the 'hand clinic' at my local hospital (my finger tips grew back :D ), it's amazing how many people have missing fingers. Apparently horse riding is very bad for losing fingers?.
 

giftiger_wunsch

New Member
Familiarity breeds contempt!.

However, on the other hand (if you've still got both :D ), a professional carpenter probably does more in a week than you do in a lifetime?.

As someone who spent time attending the 'hand clinic' at my local hospital (my finger tips grew back :D ), it's amazing how many people have missing fingers. Apparently horse riding is very bad for losing fingers?.
One of my aunts lost a finger when she was 4 by getting it caught in a bicycle chain while it was being worked on the and wheels were spinning. I agree with BrownOut's assessment; I'm far too careful to get close enough to an electric saw to do myself harm. 3v0 has a point about carpenters etc. using these tools much more often though. A professional probably has a much lower chance of injury each time they use a tool due to their expertise with them, but with the length of time for which they're used, they sustain more injuries regardless.

Nigel, I don't know about riding horses, but my trip to wildwood (near Dover) taught me that feeding horses can have this risk ;) And you don't want to know what happened to the genius who decided to relieve himself next to the lynx enclosure (and never mind the electric fence).
 

tcmtech

Banned
Most Helpful Member
It all comes down to where each of us draws the line for personal safety and what experience that we have with that type of device or situation.

I have 5 Hp electric chop saw with a 12 inch carbide demolition blade I use for fire wood cutting. Its back up is an old 7 HP 24 inch logging chainsaw. I dont let my city friends use either one without first showing them how to properly handle them.
To improve my wood cutting time and reduce personal effort this winter I am planning to build a 16 inch table saw that will be driven by a 7.5 Hp motor. No one will use it but me.

My Dad has 35 horses and I have no concerns with walking though a herd of them at any time or working with them when he needs me too.
I also work with farm machinery daily that can kill a person faster than they would even have time to react to if they got caught up in it.

The thing is I dont fear any of these things. Fear make people do stupid and irrational stuff and will actually make them less safe when dealing with some thing thats possibly perceived as dangerous.

Respect is what is needed to keep a person safe and aware of whats going on around them not fear. Fear leads to irrational actions and not paying attention to what else is around them. Respect produces rational actions and awareness.
I respect the power that the things around me have. With that respect I use that power wisely and to my advantage while being calm and in rational control of that power.
 

3v0

Coop Build Coordinator
Forum Supporter
How often have we seen disclaimers like this.

The information on this xxx is for entertainment purposes only. We are not responsible ....

The guidelines are needed to protect the site from idiots and their lawyers.

3v0
 
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