new incubator just for fun

[ghostman11]

as i am no longer farming and selling up to move up north, i still wanted to make a couple of incubator's for a few rare birds i intend to keep and breed.
so whats the point of this thread??
well basicaly it's a dumping ground for my project as i go along all the incubator's i have made in the past have been for comercial use where maximum use of space was the most important thing, everything to some degree was a compromise so i could get as many eggs in as i could fit but still do a top end job of incubateing. my new incubator will use alot of the controllers i made for the others but this time i want to add the things i couldnt before. this is purely for fun and will probaly take a fair while to complete as i am in the process of moveing.
for those that dont know i came to this forum several years ago to ask a simple electronic question i had ZERO and i mean ZERO knowledge of things electrical and had a great deal of help from here. it was the start of my hobby!! and got me hooked on electronics, ok my know;edge is still limited but for me its now very much a hobby and a way to relax.
in the next couple of posts i will outline what the incubator will do and how i hope to do it, ive got the camera ready so for anyone interestead i will take pics as i go along and post drawings etc.
i must stress this is just a fun project it's just something i want to do for the pleasure of doing it.
regards Jason

 

[Pommie]

Hi Jason,

Just wondering how this is coming along? I'm asking as my daughter has asked me to build her one and I'm thinking of attempting to make a fully automatic one. So, any info/pictures would be very much appreciated.

Mike.

 

[large_ghostman]

slowly! i dont have many pictures despite building over 50 of theese things lol but if you need any info let me know as there are alot of myths out there! if she is doing one hatch at a time instead of constantly adding eggs then one will be fine if not then you need an incubator and a hatcher. also for best results she needs a rough idea what kind of eggs as the settings are a bit different for each type of bird! ive found the best way to make a auto turner is to use rows of cradles linked together and moved by servo. for humidity i used SHT71 or something simillar if you need an indepth description of the whole thing let me know

cheers jason

 

[large_ghostman]

actualy i probbaly do have some of a old one i am taking apart!

jason

p.s just noticed logans been on and left himself logged in lol hence posting under his name

 

[tracidfish]

wow

I do like this idea.

I would love to do a few dozen ducks for the flight pond.

But then i could just put em under broody hens, though thats not as fun.

What housing do you make the incubater from>

 

[ghostman11]

thats better back under my own name!! the comercial incubators i buit were designed to hold between 10,000 and 20,000 eggs at a time, but all the development work was done in a home made incubator(s) wich i made mainly from stripped down under counter fridges, theese can hold between 260 - 650 eggs depending mainly on the turning system you use. for top hatch rates ducks require different conditions from hens and sometime hens get bored hatching ducks as they take 2-3 days longer than chicks! however some hens bread purely as broodies (gold tops) will sit untill the eggs hatch even 28 days for geese.
i will try and do a indepth post over the next few days and tell you exactly what works and what dosnt and what i do. i will also dispell many of the total myths surrounding hatching eggs!! but in the mean time if you have a question please ask.

 

[Pommie]

Well, today I was in school and had a go at building an egg rotator and here is the result.
[video=youtube_share;FbjAy6JfRAY]http://youtu.be/FbjAy6JfRAY[/video]

As you can see, it seems to work ok but I'm not very happy with it as occasionally an egg will go at a slight diagonal and stick on the dowels. This maybe because I was trying it on a granite work top which has not got the greatest coefficient of friction. I'll have to wait until next week to test it with a different base (I only work Wednesdays). I'm thinking that if a rougher surface doesn't work then maybe changing the dowels for triangular pieces may solve the problem. Another solution maybe moving the dowels higher.

Has anyone got experience of this type of turner? Any other suggestions for improving it?

I'm thinking that if I can get this reliable then I'll run it on a base made of ply slats so as to get good air circulation. I'm also thinking of raising one end so the large ends of the eggs are upward. Is this necessary or even desirable?

Edit, I've now changed the code so that it rotates every 10 minutes and takes 10 seconds to rotate. I'll leave it overnight and see how it is in the morning.

Thanks,

Mike.

 

[ghostman11]

hi mike.
sorry i havnt done the article yet i have been snowed under with work! a acouple of points for you, first thats a great job!!! its the same method as is used in alot of BRINSEA incubator's and is known as the moveing floor, but i notice a couple of things

1. normaly the type of incubator that uses this method of turning just have the dowls held at each end so there isnt 'compartments as such you just have rows and sit the eggs in the rows. the gaps between the eggs and the dowls look ok. if you hold the dowls only at each end so you have just the rows then the eggs tend not to turn too much.

2. the speed and frequency of the turning is way too high, its more normal for this type of turner to move from one extreme to the other between 3 or 5 times a DAY! (always use odd number) so normaly they move a tiny ammount every few mins, for example if it was a servo you would say move it one degree every 20 mins or something like that. keep the speed as low as possiable. as for friction it wont be a problem if you adjust the speed as sugested.


just as a side note the reason for low speed is the membranes set in the first few days and its important they move slowly so the set isnt in a permanent place just on the inner membrane, so constant tiny slow movement over a long period is best


hope thats of some help i do actualy have a old BRINSEA here somewhere that the kids used to use i will dig it out and take a few pics on friday so you can see how near you are!!

regards jason


just found a pic on the net showing what i am talking about https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WFQv_ji3ruY/TYTikadUfvI/AAAAAAAAAEY/bPP4bclAosg/s320/Brinsea%2BPolyhatch%2BIncubator.jpeg

its not very clear, in this type the floor actualy moves but its the same principle notice that the eggs just have rows they sit in rather than compartments, the floor is normaly stainless steel with small holes in and a water bath sits under this floor for the humidity. friction isnt a problem sue to the slow speed they move, you can sit and watch it for hours and never notice its actualy moved lol

i just reread your post regarding the code change, may i sugest you change it again to something like move every 6-8 hours and take 40-60 mins to move, its still a bit fast but alot closer to optimum

the more i watch your vid i have to say i do realy like the design for moveing the rails, most actualy move the floor and use a armature type device i will take a pic of. i now see you use a servo, i think you have a better way than how its done at present in alot of the comercial units, i use a different method altogether but that is for reasons of space and densisty, i will take pics of that as well

 

[Pommie]

Hi Jason, I know the turning should be much slower but was trying to establish if the design was flawed by simulating the 21 (18) days in a few hours. The eggs in the video are going to be breakfast over the next few days. The reason I partmentalised it was so I could make it inclined so the large end of the egg was higher than the small end. I read that the air sack has to develop at the large end and that having the large end higher was good. Your view on this would be appreciated. However, I have noticed that none of the commercial incubators bother with the inclination so maybe I'm over thinking this.

The more I read and think makes me conclude that simple is best. I think I'll rebuild this to leave a little more clearance between eggs and dowels - one big egg tended not to turn at all!! Actually, thinking about it, ply instead of dowels may work better - cant get stuck on a vertical wall. Your view would again be appreciated.

I intend to use a pic to move servo plus monitor temp and humidity and control a few light bulbs (but considered a bunch of 10W resistors as an alternative) to control temperature. Not sure how I'm going to control humidity - was thinking a wick on a 10W resistor might work but again I might be over thinking.

Any thought much appreciated.

Mike.

 

[ghostman11]

hi mike
the whole blunt end thing dosnt come into play unless you incubate the eggs verticlely such as in a system like this one **broken link removed** or this one **broken link removed** the main reason this kind of method is used is so you can have a greater number of eggs per X amount of space in an incubator, i normaly choose this method myself particuarly for comercial hatching, HOWEVER there is are disadvantages to it and its a completely unnatural way for a egg to develop, hence why you dont see hens trying to stand eggs up but to answer the actual question......... you incubate eggs blunt side up if you want to put it thay way because the air space in a egg is that way and you dont want the embryo to develop accross the top membrane and impede air defusion.

humidity is complex and important, the actual level depends on the normal humidity but as a general rule it should be slightly higher for the last three days, however the correct way is too candle the eggs and judge the air gap you are looking to loes 15% moisture over 18 days, now before anyone acreams at me i am aware the normal figure quoted is 13% but its incorrect the actual figure is pretty close to 14.3% but again its nonsense to get that bogged down in it, aim for around 15% over 18 days (not 19 as is normaly quoted) and you wont go far wrong, to give you a ball park figure for a sensor normaly 43%-55% RH will get you around 12%-17%ish fluid loss over 18days, keep in mind that its alot better to have a slightly too low level than it is to have a slightly too high level. you will know straightaway at the hatch time if your way off with too high humidity because you will get drowned chicks as they just start to hatch! its realy upsetting to see cracks in the eggs and beaks starting to poke through but then nothing seems to happen untill eventualy you crack the egg open after a day or so and find alot of fluid and a dead chick. for the last 3 days up the humidity to around 63%RH - 66%RH this helps soften the inner membrane(s) and makes life easier for the chicks, it also mimicks better what happens in nature as hens sit for longer in the last 3 days and the humidity under them increases. before i go into how i actualy adjust it my own method of incubateing with humidity sensors is.... i keep the eggs to be incubated at around 12C for 24 hours before i put them in the incubator then i incubate at 40% RH for 2 days then here in devon uk i normaly aim for around 46%RH for 16 days then i place eggs in hatcher with RH around 66%.

i gave up using light bulba a long time ago for heating, they are a real pain in the long run for all kinds of reason's, i found the cheapest and easiest way was too goto a charity shop and buy hair tongs (woith the flat ceramic heat plates) for about £3 each this will give you 2 plates normaly around 120-150W each i use theese as heaters trust me they work great and blow like bloody bulbs and arnt as easy to break! to adjust humidity i use a simple vent with a fan and servo when the humidity gets too high servo opens vent and fans turns on medium speed for a few seconds untill humidity lowers, i do it in stages tho so the temp dosnt drop, say open vent medium speed fan for 5 seconds then fan off leave vent open wait 10 seconds and fan back on for 5 seconds, dosnt normaly take many cycles here to get it back down to the set level. if its a very humid summer say or for whatever reason i have realy high levels of RH that are hard to controll by venting then its a case of placeing eigther a little table salt or a few sillica gel packs on a saucer and changeing every few days, but its very rare i have to do that.

to up the humidity i have a small container with waterand a lid with a slot i, sticking out slightley from this slot about 1 inch to start with is a cotton strip (like old sheet) approx 6 inch long and 2-3 inch wide. the end outside is connected to a servo so i can lift a strip upto 3 inch or so out the slot there is a fan pointing at this strip whoes other end is inside container dipped in the water. so when you need to up the humidity it lifts up through the slot and a fan blows small amount of air at the exposed strip and thus increases the humidity once correct level is reached fan shuts off and servo lowers most the cotton back down into the slot simples lol but there are many ways to do it

anyway hope that helps a little. any questions please ask

regards Jason

 

[ghostman11]

having reread my answer i will come back later tonight and exspand on humidity more to give you a better idea what goes on i dont have time untill later tho,