Need a dual circuit timer design

Thanks for viewing this thread... what I am hoping to come out of this is really pretty simple... just not for me. I literally am lost sorting through the maze of processors etc.

I need a way to time two different circuits:

Push button.. starts cycle.

Turn on a light ( either two 120v AC, 7watt flourescent cold cathode UV "C" tubes...or I can get the same frequency in a 12 V DC version)

Light should stay on from say three minutes to five minutes range.

At the same time, I need to activate a small 4.5 - 6 V DC motor

Motor should run on 1 second or so.... off for ten seconds or so.

After the 3-5 minute cycle it stops until pushed again ....

Sounds simple right ?

Well after spending some time with the 555/556 circuits I realize it won;t serve my purpose because it just continues to repeat....

Looking at a 4040B, a simple diode makes it a one shot timer

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Timer-Circuits-With-4060B.htm

but... it only controls one circuit... correct ?

So do I need two of them programmed independently or is there a better suited processor ?

By the way.. if I decide to use the AC lights... I need what.. a relay to activate them ?


Any help will be appreciated.. it started out as a cool project but ended up leaving me feel sadly unprepared.

You should consider a micro-controller based design, it would be trivial to buiild and program, you could even use a PICAXE device, cheap and easily programmed in BASIC (it's intended for school kids).

thanks

thanks for your input nigel...I'll look into that...I was actually just at the local R-Shack looking at Arduino kits ( because that's all they seem to carry ).

I was also under the impression that it wasn't possible to create extended times with 555 chips but I picked up a timer kit while there that is good for 15 minutes extendable to 60 ?

Regardless.... I remember seeing some microprocessors with built in PWM which would be an ideal option to slow the motor circuit to around 1/10 speed.

Any idea exactly what processor may best suit my needs ?

If your close to the shack I would get a Arduino uno there cheap seeing they have all you need to program the chip on one board and there simple to use if your new to this and even simpler if you no C. They also have a 5 volt relay that can switch 120 volts from the mains.

You can pwm the motor too.
$34 for https://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12268262&ab=MicrocontrollerLP
$5 for https://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062480
$3 for https://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062618
And a 2n3904 a diode 1N4148 and a resistor or two.

Or check Digi key or Mouser or Newark
I would go with the shack this time don't need much.

If you want I'll post you Circuit
The relay can handle 1 amp

Well after spending some time with the 555/556 circuits I realize it won;t serve my purpose because it just continues to repeat....

Click to expand...

You can do this with monostable 555 timers.
Like this;
**broken link removed**

khanfused said:

thanks for your input nigel...I'll look into that...I was actually just at the local R-Shack looking at Arduino kits ( because that's all they seem to carry ).

Click to expand...

An Arduino is massive overkill, and VERY expensive for the job - it's a development system, not a processor.

The PICAXE is a cheap and VERY simple to use pre-programmed PIC, that runs a version of BASIC. Lot's cheaper than an Arduino, and much easier to use.

A cheap pickaxe starter kit is UK£ 15.51 = 24.20 U.S. dollars plus shipping https://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/Starter-Packs/PICAXE-08-Starter-Pack/. The Op lives In the US Said they have the Arduino local it's only $34 and with it he could burn a $6 dollar chip and keep on going.

be80be said:

A cheap pickaxe starter kit is UK£ 15.51 = 24.20 U.S. dollars plus shipping https://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/Starter-Packs/PICAXE-08-Starter-Pack/. The Op lives In the US Said they have the Arduino local it's only $34 and with it he could burn a $6 dollar chip and keep on going.

Click to expand...

Except you don't need to buy a PICAXE starter pack, just a chip - you can easily make the lead to program it.

It is still cheeper to use 555s.

4pyros said:

It is still cheeper to use 555s.

Click to expand...

A PICAXE08-M2 is only £1.50, probably less than the multiple chips required to do it with 555's etc.

It would also be FAR more accurate and versatile.

When you never stayed in the woods you take a tent and some supply's sleeping bag maybe food.

I would not want to tell some one to start with just a chip figure how to program it, find a computer that still has serial to program it.

Don't you think some kind of starter kit would be easier to start with.


I remember when I started using pic's I ordered samples. Then tried some home made programmers hit and miss. Then ordered a pickit2
would of been easier to just ordered the pickit2

Now I can just program a 50 cent pic and do this, but that was a $100 down the road.

be80be said:

When you never stayed in the woods you take a tent and some supply's sleeping bag maybe food.

I would not want to tell some one to start with just a chip figure how to program it, find a computer that still has serial to program it.

Don't you think some kind of starter kit would be easier to start with.


I remember when I started using pic's I ordered samples. Then tried some home made programmers hit and miss. Then ordered a pickit2
would of been easier to just ordered the pickit2

Now I can just program a 50 cent pic and do this, but that was a $100 down the road.

Click to expand...

If he wants to get in to programming, then an Arduino development system is probably a reasonable idea, but for a one off simple project like this one a PICAXE is cheaper and easier.

I would normally suggest a real PIC and a programmer, but a one off project doesn't warrant it.

Nigel Goodwin said:

A PICAXE08-M2 is only £1.50, probably less than the multiple chips required to do it with 555's etc.

It would also be FAR more accurate and versatile.

Click to expand...

ya well maybe but you would need driving transisters and maybe a regulater. Six and 1/2 dozen the other.

I would push a PIC on him too but he said he seen one at the radio shack. which is cool there even selling pic's there too but it's not as good as deal as the UNO.

Here the Op something to work with

Here's a simple circuit I put together in 2 minutes:
**broken link removed**

colin55 said:

Here's a simple circuit I put together in 2 minutes:
**broken link removed**

Click to expand...

Spend another minute to fix the feedback error - the diode from pin5 to pin2 should be removed

Is there a connectshion from pin 2 to the two diodes?

wow... thanks for the responses guys...

I actually found a kit ( outrageously expensive ) at a local electronics store. I went seeking a picaxe chip and all the help I could get was " we'll be glad to order one if you tell us exactly what chip you want ".... so I found this kit which coupled with a timer kit should work. The shame is the timer kit was just a 555 with a pot... able to achieve up to fifteen minutes when I read so many references that said extended times like that are not suited for 555's.. the pwm kit seems like nothing but a 556 with a darlington transistor... I am sure I could have put it all together for a few dollars if I knew what to do.

I tried to duplicate the timer kit on a bread board so I could fool with a few variables, i.e., activating my lights off of the relay then go to the motor and a pwm of some sort but I don't seem to understand EXACTLY how it works. I flipped the circuit board over and tried to trace the path and there are too many unanswered's.

I really don't mind dropping a little money on the kits if it yields knowledge, but for the life of me I still can't seem to follow what happens inside a 555 to understand exactly why something is malfunctioning. I'd really have to trace every step of that and include details to get help but odd things were happening with the kit.

Bebe.. didn't see the second page.. RS does not carry PIC's.. even the local electronics store has to order them.. so he says.. but I found a lot of things on the shelf he said they didn't have as well.

The immediate goal here is to get THIS project working but really, I am a fifty year old carpenter that is tired of wearing my body out.. I finally picked up school again last semester.. what made the dart land on PHYSICS 111 is a mystery but I did enjoy it.. ( would have enjoyed doing better at it but that's another story ).. in the end I have learned that the local community college has pretty much nothing I am interested in... and for the spring semester I am trying to find a direction. I had considered targeting an electronics course but I am pretty resigned to the fact that teachers don;t actually teach.. you learn most of it on your own by reading and they grade you on it. THIS project was a way to get my feet wet to see if I can follow the process. It's a good tool to build something the long way then with several 555's etc then to do a much simpler method with a microprocessor.

Like bebe said.. have already started the hunt and peck method. I really appreciate the recent input.. but I posted a cry for help and the only response was pretty generic... after a week of reading stuff online I didn't fully understand others stated posting their solutions... it seems the REAL input took off when members started arguing over the best method all of which I plan on reviewing in detail later tonight.. umm.. tomorrow night.

Wow.. some of these reply's have circuits drawn I can try and maybe even get help when I don;t understand why.. THAT is what I came here looking for.. thanks again.


I'm going to fool with the current kits to try to understand exactly how a 556 and a darlington can cause pwm for a motor.. ultimately I'm sure there's a better solution but any understanding along the way is a bonus.

All I can get locally is an arduino kit and I have no objection to trying that route as opposed to ordering random chips online until I find the right one. For instance I saw a tutorial somewhere that used a 4060 and a 4017 .. I have a 4017 but the electronics supply didn;t even have a 4060.

Anyway thanks for the response, this time I see a lot of links that I will follow later on.