We are thinking of launching this new product code named "Real-Amp". Basically, it's a device that will let you test op-amp circuits. Just like a breadboard but without having to connect wires, resistors, and caps!
I had the idea in the back of my head for a while now, I know it's doable, but before we put all our resources on it, i am naturally probing the community to see how they feel about such a product.
I don't want you to loose too much time, so it's a really quick 6 questions survey. shouldn't take more than 2 minutes. https://fr.surveymonkey.com/s/HGMKRRQ
Why do you or anybody want to test opamps?
Maybe if you buy "seconds" from China extremely cheeeeep (cluck cluck) then maybe you should test them so you can pick out the few good ones.
A few years ago I designed an audio equalizer product and tens of thousands were made. One failed because it had an electrolytic capacitor installed backwards but all the rest worked perfectly for years. The opamps were American and were bought locally, not from E-Bay in Hong Kong. None of the parts were tested before they were installed on the circuit board.
My son recently bought two Chinese audio products from E-Bay and of course one didn't work. It was replaced by the vendor but it took weeks.
I said it'll be to test op-amp circuits , big difference. Personally, I never got a op-amp circuit (like differential amplifier) working perfectly from the first time. Always had to adjust the reference voltage, adjust resistor values, etc... let alone more complex circuits like band pass filters! (That's the motivation behind this project. I just want to know if i am not alone in this situation!)
My idea can be compared to a simulator, excepts it does not have the main disadvantages of a simulator: You won't be working with mathematical models, but with a real circuit, real Op-Amp IC, real resistors, real voltage and current going though...
Why do you or anybody want to test opamps?
Maybe if you buy "seconds" from China extremely cheeeeep (cluck cluck) then maybe you should test them so you can pick out the few good ones.
A few years ago I designed an audio equalizer product and tens of thousands were made. One failed because it had an electrolytic capacitor installed backwards but all the rest worked perfectly for years. The opamps were American and were bought locally, not from E-Bay in Hong Kong. None of the parts were tested before they were installed on the circuit board.
My son recently bought two Chinese audio products from E-Bay and of course one didn't work. It was replaced by the vendor but it took weeks.
I share your sentiments exactly. Maybe I am becoming cynical too....but so what ???
I am also sick and tired of quality standards that have gone to hell too.....our TV spares have always been purchased from a certain Company here in South Africa.
Whatever we purchased from them did the job and fixed the fault/problem.
Lately, they are dumping crap here too. IC's that don't work. Fake transistors and a never ending story of trash that makes a Technician want to pull his hair out. Our job is difficult enough trying to fix a faulty set. Then you must still contend with faulty NEW spares
AG, I am sick of uselessness. Whatever I do, I do properly. What is wrong with the rest out there???
Usually op-amp circuits are connected to another circuits, like sensors, amplifiers, microcontrollers. So even if your product is perfect, I would still build a complete prototype on breadboard etc. And test it with a proper application specific test signals.
And if I am going to build a complete device out of it, of course I need to tweak critical things. How is the "Real-Amp" going to know what is important in my application and what is not important?
Usually op-amp circuits are connected to another circuits, like sensors, amplifiers, microcontrollers. So even if your product is perfect, I would still build a complete prototype on breadboard etc. And test it with a proper application specific test signals.
And if I am going to build a complete device out of it, of course I need to tweak critical things. How is the "Real-Amp" going to know what is important in my application and what is not important?
Well, as you said, a typical Op Amp circuit has 1 (or several) inputs and outputs. Many solutions can be imagined to help you test your Op Amp circuit with specific test signals:
1- We can expose some inputs that will then be routed internally to the right part of the circuit to act as input
2- We can allow you (the user) to generate some test signals.
Opamps differ in lots of details, like input offsets, input current, GBW, slew rate, rail-to-railness of inputs and output, noise, drift etc. Is the device capable of simulating those?
Or to ask better, at what audience is it aimed at?
Opamps differ in lots of details, like input offsets, input current, GBW, slew rate, rail-to-railness of inputs and output, noise, drift etc. Is the device capable of simulating those?
Hmm.. I would say the audience is anyone using op-amps from time to time, and is not confident enough to be sure about what he is doing. This someone can be a student, a hobbyist, or a professional that is more specialized in digital electronics than in analog electronics.
It sounds like one of those product ideas that is cool as an idea, but the practical implementation (to get to product level) will be a complex expensive nightmare.
Well, a simulator uses mathematical model, the product i am proposing will use the real op-amp and a real circuit. won't this make you more confident about the results than with a simulator?
It sounds like one of those product ideas that is cool as an idea, but the practical implementation (to get to product level) will be a complex expensive nightmare.
Well, a simulator uses mathematical model, the product i am proposing will use the real op-amp and a real circuit. won't this make you more confident about the results than with a simulator?
I'm confident that a simulation can give good results provided that I put the right values in and include parasitics, etc.
I'm not convinced that the hypothetical product will be able to provide a sufficient number of configurations or range of component value to make it of use to me. That's just me, maybe it will be just what everyone else is looking for.
Well, as you said, a typical Op Amp circuit has 1 (or several) inputs and outputs. Many solutions can be imagined to help you test your Op Amp circuit with specific test signals:
1- We can expose some inputs that will then be routed internally to the right part of the circuit to act as input
2- We can allow you (the user) to generate some test signals.
So, the "Real-Amp" would just connect some passives around the op-amp for me, generate test signals and measure the output? I do not see why this would be better than traditional prototype.
So, the "Real-Amp" would just connect some passives around the op-amp for me, generate test signals and measure the output? I do not see why this would be better than traditional prototype.
Well, i thought that it could prevent users from having to build some test PCBs, saving time and money. Now maybe i am wrong, and that's exactly why i posted this thread
Maybe as you and dougy83 say, a simulation will be more than enough.
For me i always prefer to build the circuit "in real" but am often too lazy to lay down the circuit on a breadboard, so i end up running some prototype PCBs and experiment with it.
I'm not convinced that the hypothetical product will be able to provide a sufficient number of configurations or range of component value to make it of use to me.
Well, i kind of though of a way around this, allowing you to "plug in" all the real components, but i don't want to get into all those specifics right now..