Laser rifle project

[posix_memalign]

So you felt the need to go and search for the forum to try and dig something up on me? Helicopters are flown at fields, guns are shot in fields. Do you have a laser field where you can guarantee the laser won't be exposed to the sky or people watching? That rules out anything outdoors.

This is just for a 5mW laser. And you're talking about 500mW or 10W lasers.
**broken link removed**

What you've made very clear is that you intend to not to keep it in an enclosed chamber and use it outdoors over long ranges where it would be exposed to others.

No, I didn't "dig up" anything, I pilot RC-aircraft and RC-helicopters myself and used it as an example for that reason. It is merely a coincidence, either you believe me or not. I don't really mean any harm at all, but I'm a bit offended that you think I'm an idiot, perhaps you guys are strongly opposed to anything even remotely weapon-related, even if merely created for the purpose of not hurting any animal or human, but merely for the intellectual challenge?

While your statement makes some intuitive sense at first, i.e. all you're saying is true, it doesn't apply fully in this situation.

Yes, we all do fly our RC-stuff on a field dedicated to RC-activity (except for park gliders and such), but does that ensure no accidents happen? There are spectators, a stray RC-jet can easily kill someone if it hits said person at 200 MPH in the face. Unlikely? Of course! But how likely is it that anyone will be hurt by what I'm doing? You can also run someone over with your own car if you're not careful.
One of the issues regarding this project as a whole is of course safety, I'm curious why you imply that I don't care about safety at all. Do I really sound like that much of an idiot? I really didn't mean to, and I'm sorry if I did. But why wouldn't I try to do this as safely as possible? I'm not exactly sure where and how I'd use it, I'm quite certain I can use it safely indoors, and I would be impressed if I could consistently and swiftly set things on fire at a distance from e.g. across the hall and a room, that would be neat. Outdoors? I don't know, that depends on a lot of things, many of which I haven't looked into fully as of yet, either way it would be treated like a real gun in any case.

How can I do it safely outdoors? Well there are many ways this can be accomplished, an example would be to use the local shooting range, which is often empty where I live -- there is only one entrance; I would merely bring a friend who would stand outside the door for the shooting range and alert me verbally if someone else wanted to enter the shooting range without eye protection -- in which case I'd stop my laser activity. Now the shooting range-guys might be upset that I used the range for something like this, but I doubt it, they are friendly people, but like I said there are factors I don't know about yet, this is one of them.

I don't even know if it would be feasible with optics to make the device effective at the ranges possible outdoor, I don't know what usual attenuation is on such lasers nor what optics would be required to make it effective at a long distance.

 

[dknguyen]

but merely for the intellectual challenge?

Then enclose it in a chamber and crank up the power even more.

One of the issues regarding this project as a whole is of course safety, I'm curious why you imply that I don't care about safety at all. Do I really sound like that much of an idiot? I really didn't mean to, and I'm sorry if I did. But why wouldn't I try to do this as safely as possible? I'm not exactly sure where and how I'd use it, I'm quite certain I can use it safely indoors, and I would be impressed if I could consistently and swiftly set things on fire at a distance from e.g. across the hall and a room, that would be neat. Outdoors? I don't know, that depends on a lot of things, many of which I haven't looked into fully as of yet, either way it would be treated like a real gun in any case.

How can I do it safely outdoors? Well there are many ways this can be accomplished, an example would be to use the local shooting range, which is often empty where I live -- there is only one entrance; I would merely bring a friend who would stand outside the door for the shooting range and alert me verbally if someone else wanted to enter the shooting range without eye protection -- in which case I'd stop my laser activity. Now the shooting range-guys might be upset that I used the range for something like this, but I doubt it, they are friendly people, but like I said there are factors I don't know about yet, this is one of them.

I don't even know if it would be feasible with optics to make the device effective at the ranges possible outdoor, I don't know what usual attenuation is on such lasers nor what optics would be required to make it effective at a long distance.

It's harder than a gun because you gotta make sure no one is actually watching you. Unless you lived on your own acridge or island I think using it outdoors is unwise because you can't guarantee no one would be watching. And at a place like a range, how do you guarantee someone doesn't accidentally look? I mean, you'd think they'd be super curious. UNless they all have laser safety goggles, which they won't because those things are a few hundred each from what I have seen.

 

[posix_memalign]

Then enclose it in a chamber and crank up the power even more.


It's harder than a gun because you gotta make sure no one is actually watching you. Unless you lived on your own acridge or island I think using it outdoors is unwise because you can't guarantee no one would be watching. And at a place like a range, how do you guarantee someone doesn't accidentally look? I mean, you'd think they'd be super curious. UNless they all have safety goggles, which they won't because those things are a few hundred each.

It is a closed range, it is not possible to "look in" from the outside, and to ensure no one walks in despite this, I would have my friend, it is unthinkable that someone could walk up to the range and not be noticed by someone else (my friend) who has the job of watching for exactly that.

How safe is safe enough for you?

 

[gabeNC]

Since you're pretty new to the forum posix, you need to understand that there are alot of requests that border on illegal activity (remote detonators) or just plain stupid (grid tie-in with no experience in high voltage).

So you should agree that asking for a powerful laser in a "rifle" housing is suspicious. Maybe you DO have just educational leanings but I'd be surprised if anyone here helped you with that.

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot... welcome to the forum now don't hurt anybody or yourself.

 

[posix_memalign]

Since you're pretty new to the forum posix, you need to understand that there are alot of requests that border on illegal activity (remote detonators) or just plain stupid (grid tie-in with no experience in high voltage).

So you should agree that asking for a powerful laser in a "rifle" housing is suspicious. Maybe you DO have just educational leanings but I'd be surprised if anyone here helped you with that.

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot... welcome to the forum now don't hurt anybody or yourself.

Thanks.
I never meant to offend anyone; but it is hard not to get upset and defensive with apparently an entire forum against yourself.

But I see your point; and seeing that the price (as function of effect) seems to be growing exponentially above ~200 mW it is unlikely that I will even want to spend the (probably) astronomical sum on a class 4 laser anyway.

 

[dknguyen]

Why would a $600 for 500mW laser be acceptable, but a 20W lasers for $2000 is too be too expensive?

 

[gabeNC]

Let me tell you a little secret Posix. To get back on the right foot with dknguyen, ask her out to dinner.

 

[marcbarker]

Here's where I think we got off on the wrong foot.

Before thread. Burning fun with souped-up laser pointers
"50 mW" YouTube - Green Laser 50mw Burning a Match www.thegreenbeam.com

"Blu-Ray laser diode" YouTube - Burning Violet Laser HD DVD/Blu Ray

Now the OP asks "I'd like to buy something much more powerful preferably at least a 10 watts class 4 module"

Reasonable action for almost anyone, after watching examples on youtube. But then:

"I don't really care if the laser is visible light or infrared -- for class 4 I expect it to be the latter. " oops!

!!! this is I think why we'd become hostile! Erk! A class IV laser is invisible innit?, and any bystander noticing a 'very curious dim red glowing', trying to work out what they are seeing, they isn't going to realise it's actually a 10,000 mW invisible laser they are 'seeing'. They say 'ignorance is bliss', but that might not apply here.

My 0.02... like any other activity that can be potentially dangerous in the wrong hands, it's quite a responsibility to understand what these risks are and to ensure that these risks are not excessive compared to normal day-to day risks, i.e. driving a car. Remote controlled models and (unconcealed) firearms are visible danger, but when it's invisible and highly coherent light of 10,000 mW, it's going to be difficult for the uneducated to fully realise these invisible risks.

 

[unclejed613]

"i'm going to blow up the earth...... it obstructs my view of Venus....."



seriously, in the last 10 or so years, there has been a growing number of people in government office that have no sense of humor about such things. you say you want this ostensibly for experimental purposes, but they will instantly assume you want it for nefarious purposes. such a device should for safety reasons be operated under controlled conditions, with the proper safety equipment. there ARE people out there that would use a laser with that kind of power with the intent to injure as many people as possible in a public place if possible. if you want to experiment with lasers like that, i would recommend going to school for physics, more specifically optics. get some training, especially in safety methods. you can never get back burned portions of your retina.

 

[posix_memalign]

Why would a $600 for 500mW laser be acceptable, but a 20W lasers for $2000 is too be too expensive?

Because I'm just a university student -- I'm not rich.
Like I mentioned it seems the price does not grow linearly in proportion to performance once you start getting close to the limits of the class 3B; I assume few single class 4 lasers are sold to private individuals and that if they at all are sold they are even more expensive.

 

[posix_memalign]

Here's where I think we got off on the wrong foot.

Before thread. Burning fun with souped-up laser pointers
"50 mW" YouTube - Green Laser 50mw Burning a Match www.thegreenbeam.com

"Blu-Ray laser diode" YouTube - Burning Violet Laser HD DVD/Blu Ray

Now the OP asks "I'd like to buy something much more powerful preferably at least a 10 watts class 4 module"

Reasonable action for almost anyone, after watching examples on youtube. But then:

"I don't really care if the laser is visible light or infrared -- for class 4 I expect it to be the latter. " oops!

!!! this is I think why we'd become hostile! Erk! A class IV laser is invisible innit?, and any bystander noticing a 'very curious dim red glowing', trying to work out what they are seeing, they isn't going to realise it's actually a 10,000 mW invisible laser they are 'seeing'. They say 'ignorance is bliss', but that might not apply here.

My 0.02... like any other activity that can be potentially dangerous in the wrong hands, it's quite a responsibility to understand what these risks are and to ensure that these risks are not excessive compared to normal day-to day risks, i.e. driving a car. Remote controlled models and (unconcealed) firearms are visible danger, but when it's invisible and highly coherent light of 10,000 mW, it's going to be difficult for the uneducated to fully realise these invisible risks.

Sorry, I really didn't consider this at all.

When I said I don't 'really care' it was meant in regard to: "if I have to give up the cool and neat idea of being able to see my beam, then I guess that is okay and have to be expected" -- just because I'm given to understand that the very powerful lasers are in fact usually infrared.

Although I see where your concern is; if a laser rifle would be used as a weapon it would obviously be ideal to have the energy invisible, but I don't even have any intentions to burn even insects with it -- unlike others I've seen on Youtube I might mention.

Obviously one major excitement factor in this would be to actually be able to see the laser beam in the air, adding another laser in the visible spectrum just for that reason sitting immediately above or below the burning laser would be neat and could be used for aiming, although not exactly the same as having the same beam that does the burning be visible, obviously.

 

[posix_memalign]

"i'm going to blow up the earth...... it obstructs my view of Venus....."



seriously, in the last 10 or so years, there has been a growing number of people in government office that have no sense of humor about such things. you say you want this ostensibly for experimental purposes, but they will instantly assume you want it for nefarious purposes. such a device should for safety reasons be operated under controlled conditions, with the proper safety equipment. there ARE people out there that would use a laser with that kind of power with the intent to injure as many people as possible in a public place if possible. if you want to experiment with lasers like that, i would recommend going to school for physics, more specifically optics. get some training, especially in safety methods. you can never get back burned portions of your retina.

Difference in culture perhaps? In my country we have a very relaxed view and relationship to everything criminal in almost all cities perhaps except for Oslo nowadays -- i.e. that little crime takes place and that the worst possible intentions are rarely feared in relation to basically anything.

 

[marcbarker]

Difference in culture perhaps? In my country we have a very relaxed view and relationship to everything criminal in almost all cities perhaps except for Oslo nowadays -- i.e. that little crime takes place and that the worst possible intentions are rarely feared in relation to basically anything.

[politically controversial mode=on] I read that statistically (or maybe it's an urban myth), there is less cases of gun crime going on in Iraq than there is in Washington. So it seems it might be a good idea for the Americans to pull out of Washington!

 

[unclejed613]

the cost of technology in general is exponential. if you want a commercial 1kW FM transmitter, the price is about $6000.00, if you want a 10kW one it's $100,000.00

 

[smanches]

Find yourself a neodymium glass rod (or ruby rod) that is already mirrored. Surround it with high power flash lamps. Instant single shot laser gun.

We built these in high school. They can get quite powerful, but since they are not constant on, they are much safer.

 

[marcbarker]

Find yourself a neodymium glass rod (or ruby rod) that is already mirrored. Surround it with high power flash lamps. Instant single shot laser gun.

We built these in high school. They can get quite powerful, but since they are not constant on, they are much safer.

The mirrored ends of the rod has one end with a 'Brewster Angle', this special ingredient allowed one team to get there first with a working laser before their competitors did.

 

[tcmtech]

A cheap and far less destructive not quite laser device can be made from a simple 12 volt 100 watt automotive halogen bulb. (Those small cartridge type that go in the back of the main lamp reflector.)

Using an aluminum tube with a set of lenses can in fact give you a very hot and very bright fine beam that only has dangerous burning power for a few tens of feet at best but is still bright enough to be seen from a far distance while still being safe. Total cost is under $50. If you keep the bulb voltage down so the beam is more red than white you can get better heat focus distance with it while using less applied power.
A college physics class mate was specializing in optics of some sort and he told me about him and his buddies building one. He said it was easy to set up and fine tune and I have always thought about trying to build one myself.

Its not a real laser however it is still highly focused light with enough infrared power to burn stuff easily but still has a fast enough dispersion in air to be harmless within a reasonable distance.

Stick to your guns! Newbies that think outside the box about possibly dangerous devices catch hell and a half until they are accepted.
As the 'Grid Tie Inverter' guy believe me I know. I caught hell for my 'blatant disreguard' for line voltage safety and connection issues in countries other than where I live. And I still think many are grumbling about it and my false belief that others have and can use common sense!

Welcome and continue to keep the city dwellers and saftey nazis on their toes. They really need the exercise!

 

[Rufus_SPQR]

10W lasers are not that rare a thing

Hello!

After reading through all the hype about laser risks and/or safety, I just wanted to point out that 10W class IV lasers are quite common thingies.
Be that in telecommunications (IR, see Lumics Laser Diodes - Fiber Coupled: Diode Laser Systems) or in the entertainment industry (green, red, RGB... see **broken link removed**).

As a consequence, three things come to mind:
Even though on forums like this there may be many dreamers and newbies, (like for example those that still think "real" antigravity devices or "real, working" ray guns can actually be built from plans that are being offered in certain magazines for a handful of dollars, or those that want to hook their I-Pod to a mains outlet, using a "dropping resistor"...), there are also MANY people who do have a quite well developped notion about safety aspects, and probably do not need to be "re-educated for the 25th time" as if they were children, whenever topics about potentially dangerous voltages, pressures or radiations come up.

Secondly, not all areas of the western world do have a strong urge to limit people's activities by laws and regulations, or immediately suspect "strange things" whenever something "out of the normal thinking box" is the topic.

So, for example, if I were a citizen of the US I would have trouble getting a 200 mW laser-pointer from China (limited to <= 5 mW by law), but I could buy Uranium through mail-order...
So, dear fellow electronics enthusiasts, professionals, newbies or whatever, please do have in mind that a forum like this is always an INTERNATIONAL place, even though a certain geographical region of the globe maybe present in a higher proportion than others (but those others may very well be norwegian AND dominate the english language very well AND have a lot less to worry about regulations and laws that govern their personal activities or interests).

Anyway... just my opinion. Please broaden your mind a bit.
Things like this..: "Important FDA Warning for all >5mW Lasers: FDA advises all customers that these lasers may be purchased only if you are NOT a citizen of the United States and you are NOT currently living in the United States."... may just not apply in other parts of the world. Period.

And to the OP: Do a Google Search, or check the "bay", or even Alibaba. There must be many used, surplus or decomissioned 10W lasers around (in whichever WL).

Best Regards & Greetings!

Rufus (SPQR)