Is Hardware engineering Dead in the UK?

[John Murdock]

A couple years ago I undertook an electronics related course in high school, I got interested in electronics and luckily I somehow landed a spot in a top 3 UK engineering university. Now that I am approaching the end of my degree here I am looking at jobs and frankly there are no engineering related jobs in the UK and if there are they pay just about the same as jobs that dont require degrees. (£24-28k)

Fortunately I have the option to enter banking/consuting etc where the jobs:
1) Pay around £35-50k for GRADUATE entry level jobs.
2) In my opinion, somewhat immoral and dishonest
3) Brain dead making power points slide shows etc. just grunt work.


Is this just because of COVID or is UK manufacturing industry dead?

 

[MacIntoshCZ]

Industry was not much affected and if so, so far what i know there was only silicon manufacture delay. In worldwide scale... i am not UK sry
BTW what i can recommend you, if you are not going to work on yourself and start yours own bussiness dont do hobby as job. It will be not hobby anymore.
Thats my personal feeling.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

A couple years ago I undertook an electronics related course in high school, I got interested in electronics and luckily I somehow landed a spot in a top 3 UK engineering university. Now that I am approaching the end of my degree here I am looking at jobs and frankly there are no engineering related jobs in the UK and if there are they pay just about the same as jobs that dont require degrees. (£24-28k)

Fortunately I have the option to enter banking/consuting etc where the jobs:
1) Pay around £35-50k for GRADUATE entry level jobs.
2) In my opinion, somewhat immoral and dishonest
3) Brain dead making power points slide shows etc. just grunt work.


Is this just because of COVID or is UK manufacturing industry dead?

Blair killed off most British manufacturing industry, why limit yourself to the UK?.

 

[MacIntoshCZ]

Blair killed off most British manufacturing industry, why limit yourself to the UK?.

are college free in UK anyway?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

are college free in UK anyway?

University certainly isn't - you have to take out student loans - at lesser 'colleges' there may be some free courses.

 

[MacIntoshCZ]

University certainly isn't - you have to take out student loans - at lesser 'colleges' there may be some free courses.

ok thanks, in CZ health care and studying are free. But quality of schools.... nah

 

[John Murdock]

MacIntoshCZ It most certainly isn't free. For UK citizens, its £9250, £30000 for international students and that is excluding living costs which around the university are around £200 a week excluding bills.

Nigel Goodwin I had a look. In regards to Europe mostly Germany and France you have to learn the language which honestly I am not interested in. The salary difference isn't great, after Brexit trying to find a job there is difficult. I was going to study an Masters at ETH Zurich in Switzerland but after Brexit they are starting to treat UK applicants like international students. More fees, more entry GRE exams etc. It just isn't enough to relocate for.

I have seen some software role in Europe with lucrative packages but nothing hardware/design related they have plenty of their own engineers.

The US has great opportunities on the other hand and that's something I would have to seriously consider.

 

[schmitt trigger]

Australia?

 

[Flyback]

For hardware its mainly Germany Belgium, Switz, Lux or USA.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

MacIntoshCZ It most certainly isn't free. For UK citizens, its £9250, £30000 for international students and that is excluding living costs which around the university are around £200 a week excluding bills.

Nigel Goodwin I had a look. In regards to Europe mostly Germany and France you have to learn the language which honestly I am not interested in. The salary difference isn't great, after Brexit trying to find a job there is difficult. I was going to study an Masters at ETH Zurich in Switzerland but after Brexit they are starting to treat UK applicants like international students. More fees, more entry GRE exams etc. It just isn't enough to relocate for.

That was always going to be the case, and it's the same the other way round - we're no longer in the EU so it's international students both ways.

One of my daughter's housemates when she was at Durham University was Mongolian/Italian, and went to Durham to do a Masters degree (he worked in the fashion industry in Italy).
While he was Mongolian, he was married to an Italian woman, and had lived in Italy for a good few years - but still held a Mongolian passport. Because of this he had to pay International fees (at triple prices, as mentioned above), so my daughter asked why didn't he take out Italian citizenship? - he'd never thought of it, so he did - and got back most of his money, and just paid the EU rate.

Depending what you do, language isn't always an issue - as the international language of science is English - and many (most?) courses are even taught in English - even French Universities have started teaching some courses in English now.

My daughter went to the Netherlands for a 'Year In Industry' as part of her Masters Degree in Chemistry - and worked at Chemelot - basically the chemical industry site for Europe, and the standard language on the site was English (she actually worked for a German owned company). She now lives and works in the Netherlands, currently at a University, and as such has learnt Dutch - but University classes are taught in English - however, where she lives English isn't at all widely spoken, so you can't even talk to people in shops unless you speak Dutch.

I have seen some software role in Europe with lucrative packages but nothing hardware/design related they have plenty of their own engineers.

The US has great opportunities on the other hand and that's something I would have to seriously consider.

Pretty difficult to move to and work in the USA though.

Having said that, probably not so easy in the EU following Brexit

While I applaud your ambition, and you haven't done a 'crappy degree', it might have been an idea to check job prospects before you started?.

As for the bank jobs, it's usually Maths, Chemistry and Physics graduates that they are looking for, as they are wanting Mathematicians - and they often burn them out in just a few years.

 

[Flyback]

Do bankers use maths?....i thought it was all software packages that did the math for them?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Do bankers use maths?....i thought it was all software packages that did the math for them?

Why else do they employ so many Mathematicians?.

 

[John Murdock]

That was always going to be the case, and it's the same the other way round - we're no longer in the EU so it's international students both ways.

One of my daughter's housemates when she was at Durham University was Mongolian/Italian, and went to Durham to do a Masters degree (he worked in the fashion industry in Italy).
While he was Mongolian, he was married to an Italian woman, and had lived in Italy for a good few years - but still held a Mongolian passport. Because of this he had to pay International fees (at triple prices, as mentioned above), so my daughter asked why didn't he take out Italian citizenship? - he'd never thought of it, so he did - and got back most of his money, and just paid the EU rate.

Depending what you do, language isn't always an issue - as the international language of science is English - and many (most?) courses are even taught in English - even French Universities have started teaching some courses in English now.

My daughter went to the Netherlands for a 'Year In Industry' as part of her Masters Degree in Chemistry - and worked at Chemelot - basically the chemical industry site for Europe, and the standard language on the site was English (she actually worked for a German owned company). She now lives and works in the Netherlands, currently at a University, and as such has learnt Dutch - but University classes are taught in English - however, where she lives English isn't at all widely spoken, so you can't even talk to people in shops unless you speak Dutch.



Pretty difficult to move to and work in the USA though.

Having said that, probably not so easy in the EU following Brexit

While I applaud your ambition, and you haven't done a 'crappy degree', it might have been an idea to check job prospects before you started?.

As for the bank jobs, it's usually Maths, Chemistry and Physics graduates that they are looking for, as they are wanting Mathematicians - and they often burn them out in just a few years.

Thank you for the input. I did check prospects, infact I think they have the highest graduate salaries in the UK (Imperial College London, mostly since all go work in the City) and overall I am very happy with the course (electrical and electronic engineering). The hardware scene here is dead and as such will not be pursuing a career in this field. Pretty dead set on consultancy at this stage. Good money and not as difficult but as mentioned just overall sad to see the decline in the industry,

 

[John Murdock]

Do bankers use maths?....i thought it was all software packages that did the math for them?

For Quant jobs, they do hire maths guys but they aren't looking for any maths undergrad mostly top top PhD students studying Bayesian stats and anything stats related. Otherwise they look for any competent person with a STEM degree and a proven track record, run their ass down for 5-10 years @70hr weeks till the next batch come in. The few that stay are the ones that become the VPs etc. At least that's how I know it to be.

 

[Flyback]

For Quant jobs, they do hire maths guys.......

...yes , sounds right , i worked for a quantum physics guy who had left the finance ind'ry in london after the 2008 crash....but he had worked for a small consultancy that offered services to the big banks, and the Goldman Sachs's etc

Why wouldnt you want to learn German?.....Germany is the world centre of hardware engineering.....the Bit along and round the rhein hohne canal....duisberg, essen, wuppertal, bochum etc etc