mramos1 said:If this guy really has this, not sure why we have not seen it yet? But this could be big.
mramos1 said:Producing hydrogen in a car makes since as there is extra power waste from the alt.
Sceadwian said:Considering the chemicals you'd need to use to mix to create your fuel likley cost more than gasoline, and they're highly dangerous to humans and require special DOT handling procedures for transport let alone use in an automobile it's completly silly. You're going to get more efficient energy storage if you just increase the fuel cell size into the space the hydrogen generating 'plant' is. If it's economically feasable at all it'd be in huge quantites at a refineing plant, not in the vehicle itself, that just makes no sense.
I though that alternators were horribly inefficient (50% is typical) so you'd draw 6hp, still nothing even on a small car with an output of 60hp.Oznog said:They'll suck a bit more than 3 hp off the engine which is not very noticible on a big engine. You'd see it in the mpg figures if you bother to test with a high alternator load vs minimum load.
It was not complex. It is a sealed case (old water filter unit from when I moved in this house and I doubled its size and saved the old one), stainless steel, water and a battery. Only one complex chemical (H2O), only one complex element (Stainless steel; if that is an element) and +/- power (I have 12 volts DC batteries all over so that was not so complex).Sceadwian said:What you're going to end up with is an overly complicated electrochemical capacitor which wastes energy at every conversion stage. Instead of generating electricty from the process of the primary cell, it's being used to directly electrolyse the water and the hydrogen gas generated is being used for a fuel cell to convert it back into electricty? If you can't see the fundamental flaw in that kind of setup no amount of disuasion is going to stop you, but it's your money.
Sceadwian said:If you're talking about using a slow draw from the alternator over time to separate the hydrogen and oxygen in the water that's okay, but only for peak power. I'd be curious to see how much separated hydrogen and oxygen could be added to the vehicles normal fuel/air mixture. I don't know the temperature/pressure required to make a hydrogen oxygen mixture combust but if it closely enough matches the native compression ratio of the car it would make a self recharging turbo booster just add water.
Even if you do that, it's still going to result in less gas mileage, because no matter how much you note that the sollution didn't heat up, it did, at least a few degrees and that's wasted energy to heat, in the volumes you end up with the thermal loss makes total system efficiency pretty horrible.
Sceadwian said:I think you're missing a fundamental understanding of basic thermodynamics. When you use electricity to split water (or any hydrogen containing substance) into issolated hydrogen gas you lose some of that energy as heat in the process, that energy is lost and can never be regained.
The same thing is going to happen when you use some method to turn that hydrogen back into useable energy. You're drawing energy from the alternator and using it to covert a liquid into a gas that is easy to extract energy from, and then using that gas in some process to gain useable energy. The entire process can be made more efficiant by simply NOT drawing energy in the first place. The alternator does not waste any electricty when it's not driving a load, as soon as you connect a device to the alternator it creates a load and draws energy from the engine. You're just moving it around and wasteing tonnes of it in the process. I'm not trying to prove you wrong here but you seem to have a lack of basic physics let alone what use hydrogen can be for a power source.
If it's how you want to spend your time, so be it, but you'd be better spending your time understanding why it is things like that aren't practical.
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