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How to set up a temperature profile differently

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Jane11

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For my project I need to set up a temperature profile but the profile should NOT start from an ambient temperature ,that can be as low as 20°C , but from a higher temperature, for example from 150°C.
Also it should finish at that temperature 150°C.
Will I need two PID controllers or one will be enough?
And what kind of the controllers_ ALtec P410 or REX C100 or different?
Thank you for help
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
A Google of Ramp and Soak Temperature Controller will get you what you want. You store a profile consisting of ramp and soak states. Most controllers like this can store several pre programmed profiles. Here is a basic example.

Here are more of them:
https://www.omega.com/subsection/ramp-soak-controllers.html

Keep in mind you can be controlling temperature or other engineering units like Flow. Each Ramp and Soak has a time interval. Anyway, commonly called Ramp and Soak.

Ron
 

Jane11

Member
Thanks for your reply.
I need to solder items that need only about 10 seconds to be heated and soldered ( no longer)
The starting temperature can not be ambient (20°C)temperature because it is not technically possible to heat up ( large) soldering tip to about 220C during those 10 sec. So I must already start from a higher temperature, say 150C. That temperature is lower than melting point of tin but high enough that soldering tip CAN reach the melting point during those 10 sec. After those 10 sec, I need to a soak period to cool down the soldering tip but ONLY to those 150 C from where I started (and I can solder other items)
Will I need 2 controllers, 2 pcs of TC or only one?
Thank you
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Thanks for your reply.
I need to solder items that need only about 10 seconds to be heated and soldered ( no longer)
The starting temperature can not be ambient (20°C)temperature because it is not technically possible to heat up ( large) soldering tip to about 220C during those 10 sec. So I must already start from a higher temperature, say 150C. That temperature is lower than melting point of tin but high enough that soldering tip CAN reach the melting point during those 10 sec. After those 10 sec, I need to a soak period to cool down the soldering tip but ONLY to those 150 C from where I started (and I can solder other items)
Will I need 2 controllers, 2 pcs of TC or only one?
Thank you

Only one, you only need a single controller with a simple profile of a few steps. In this case think of the soldering element as a simple heater. Your heater has two set points, Low Heat and High Heat. The controller maintains the tip temperature at 150 Degrees C (Low Heat) and then when a button is pushes or other stimulus applied the controller goes to High Heat. This is not a unusual or unique situation. As long as the heating element is capable of going from 150 C to 220 C in whatever time you want and as heat is being soaked from it. You only need a single controller, these are commonly called Dual Setpoint temperature process controllers. One Controller with One Sensor.

https://www.omega.com/guides/tempcontrol.html?gclid=CN-2hqqds8kCFQgKaQodnIkAxw

Use the "Narrow By" column on the left to narrow the selections and narrow down till you find what you want. I am only using Omega as an example. What you want is very common.

An example of a controller I used about 25 years ago is the Honeywell UDC3000 Series Actually Model DC3000K-E-0A3-20-0000-0. I was heating a fluid with my Low Temp of 300F and the High Temp of 600F. The UDC 3000 is just another example.

Ron
 
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Reloadron

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Most Helpful Member
Duplicate Post... My bad.... :(

Ron
 

Jane11

Member
Ron, thank you for your reply.
So, let's say that I need that high temperature to stay only 10sec and then to go to low heat. But , say 2 minutes later, I need to solder again and I do want to start from that 150C again. In other words will be that Low Heat maintained all the time whenever I will need to solder ( until I turn off the machine)?
Will it work with only one controller and TC?
Thanks again for explanation.
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
OK, using the example I gave above a Honeywell UDC 3000 type controller. Yes, only one thermocouple or sensor and only one controller. The controller will have two set points a Low and High or call them whatever you like. So we set a low set point and that is where the controller will stay. How do we get to the high set point? In my example we could just use a DI (Digital Input) to the controller. This is how we tell the controller to go to high heat or another set point. It will try and go to the second set point as long as we apply a digital logic signal. That DI can be as simple as a push button switch. Anytime we are not calling for High Heat then the controller will control at Low Heat. High and Low could even be reversed so it is really just SP1 and SP2 (Set Point 1 and Set Point 2). Thus we call it a dual set point type controller.

Just remember that you need to choose how you drive your heating element! The controller will have an output which could be a voltage, current or on/off dry relay contacts. The type of controller output is your choice.

So, let's say that I need that high temperature to stay only 10sec and then to go to low heat. But , say 2 minutes later, I need to solder again and I do want to start from that 150C again. In other words will be that Low Heat maintained all the time whenever I will need to solder ( until I turn off the machine)? Yes!
Will it work with only one controller and TC? YES!
Thanks again for explanation.

Ron
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
More than welcome. Having a dual set point type controller can have many uses. should you need to know more, just ask.

Ron
 

Jane11

Member
I still have a problem to set up my PLC controller .Can anyone check if a PLC controller can work like this?

I will start a PLC controller from a "cold" state. The temperature will reach a low temperature limit( 170 C) and waits for me to start my profile .
The profile will be set to start from 170C(lower temperature limit) to 220C, stay 10 seconds, and then the profile will finish.
But the temperature will remain at 170C(low temperature limit), so that the next time I will start the profile , the profile will start again from 170C(low temperature limit).
Is that possible?
Thank you
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
What is your controller? Yes, it's possible and easily done but you need the right controller and the right setup. What exactly is the problem you are having and what exactly (Model and Part Number) is the controller you are using?

Ron
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
No, the controller you have is not the controller you want. Look at your manual page 2 Special Functions. While this is not a dual setpoint controller there is an option which may work. Page 2 #6 Special Functions where we see Rem (Remote Analog Setting). This allows for a remote analog input to determine the controller setpoint. All of this would involve scaling and gets complicated. I also can't find much about remote analog setting in the manual. Anyway, this controller is not what you want and need. I mentioned early in this thread a dual setpoint controller, something similar to the Honeywell UDC 2000 series or similar. You want a controller that allows dual (two) setpoint and allows switching between setpoints using a remote input. You have for example SP1 and SP2 in your case SP1 = 170 C and SP2 = 220 C. So the controller controls at 170 C until a remote signal commands it to go to 220 C for whatever duration the remote input is applied, in your case 10 Seconds. Keep something in mind at this point. You are taking a load from 170C to 220C which is a 50C increase. At this point you have a blank? It will take time to get the load from 170C to 220C and your heaters need to meet that demand. Once at 220C you want to wait 10 Seconds and then return to 170C? I am assuming you have all of this worked out. Things like watt density for heater elements depending on what you are heating.

Ron
 

Reloadron

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
My pleasure and I hope this project works out for you.

Ron
 
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