egg boiler using electric kettle

[elfcurry]

Aha! So, killivolt, our confusion is due to differing cross-pond terms. I'm saying water is heated in a kettle, which was originally and still can be something you put over a heat source, but is often with an electric element for spped and efficiency. Tea can be made tea in a tea pot - a closed container with a spout, a handle and a replacable lid.

Does this change your understanding of anything I've said? A modern cheap electric kettle is little more than a plastic jug with a heating element at the bottoom and an automatic cut-off for when it's boiling. They can be quite cheap £8 / $12. Using one to boil eggs using careful timing and temperature control to make the process repeatable shouldn't be too hard.

I realised that to avoid the risk of an egg breaking and making a mess before solidifying, I should put the eggs in something inside the kettle. I don't want liquid egg coming into contact with theelement. I think an aluminium drink can is the ideal solution, being thin and of a good thermal conductor it won't interfere with the heat flow. Also they're cheap, plentiful and disposable in case of eggy mishap.

Hi again,

I forgot to mention that hard boiled eggs and scrambled eggs are considered safer for human consumption. That's because of the temperature required to produce an egg where are the parts are firm not liquid. I dont know what the risk is however, but there is some small risk unless cooked until firm.

Oooh yes. I remember an 'egg scare' in 1988 when our Food and Agriculture Government Minister famously warned people about eggs being a source of salmonella and lost her job because it scared people and egg producers lost sales! While I wouldn't eat undercooked shellfish, pork or chicken I can't worry about everything. But thanks for the warning and reminder.

 

[killivolt]

A modern cheap electric kettle is little more than a plastic jug with a heating element at the bottoom and an automatic cut-off for when it's boiling. They can be quite cheap £8 / $12. I want to use one to boil eggs using careful timing to make the process repeatable.

Yes, it was a play on words. But, I'm still thinking under the circumstances alec_t has a good idea. All except for the automatic removal. But, now that I think about it.

If the lid comes up much like?..........waite a minute coffee pot lid, like automatic drip coffee maker the ones you put your thumb on and the hole lid comes up. If it's like that, you could attach a spring loaded trip and attach a rod in the interior to a tray,

1. Shuts Off

2. Trips the spring load

3. Lifts lid and raises egg basket.

Although, I would probably put a gear box between the spring load and the basket for a slow rise out of the water.

Edit: The perfect egg.

Edit:Edit: Kind of like putting a toaster and a automatic Tea Kettle together.

Edit:Edit:Edit: If anybody thought of this before I didn't read many of the previous post's. Sorry.

 

[Mr RB]

For hard boiled eggs, the cooking technique seems pretty easy with much more relaxed timing constraints: boil for long enough, peel, eat. To make peeling easy I always cool them quickly in cold water then preferably peel straight away unless being kept for later use.
...

That's how my woman cooks eggs and it's terrible for peeling, compared to my method. Sometimes peeling her eggs there's so much egg stuck to the shell I get the craps with it and just throw the whole thing in the trash and grab another egg. There's nothing worse than a massacred boiled egg.

...
No, when starting this discussion I meant soft boiled eggs as I like them for breakfast eaten with a spoon. I want a soft runny golden yolk but a firm white. I want a repeatable process for something with critical timing which I often get a bit wrong when cooking in a saucepan on the gas hob.
...

The main thing is weight of the egg vs cooking time, so eggs will have to be weighed. Then of course they need to be removed instantly from the hot water either by you or by the machine as if left in the water they will keep cooking. They will also keep cooking outside the water due to stored heat, so need to be eaten right away or cooled significantly right away, by you or the machine.

...
I'm very reluctant to seal it. I don't want a pressure cooker which is what it would become. Properly sealed it would raise the boiling point and reduce the cooking time.
...

A pressure cooker won't significantly reduce the egg cooking time anyway, that only happens when it can run for sustained periods >100'C. Assuming your eggs are placed in cold water the egg liquid will rise in temp at a similar rate to the water temp rise, so the eggs will cook as the water is rising.

...
I realised that to avoid the risk of an egg breaking and making a mess before solidifying, I should put the eggs in something inside the kettle. I don't want liquid egg coming into contact with theelement.
...

Not necessary, you can get plenty of electric kettle/jugs with a metal body and the element is bonded to the underside of the metal cavity, leaving a clean metal cavity inside. My kettle is that type, and a friend had a similar kettle and used to boil eggs in it. The inside is basically a very deep metal saucepan.

 

[MrAl]

Aha! So, killivolt, our confusion is due to differing cross-pond terms. I'm saying water is heated in a kettle, which was originally and still can be something you put over a heat source, but is often with an electric element for spped and efficiency. Tea can be made tea in a tea pot - a closed container with a spout, a handle and a replacable lid.

Does this change your understanding of anything I've said? A modern cheap electric kettle is little more than a plastic jug with a heating element at the bottoom and an automatic cut-off for when it's boiling. They can be quite cheap £8 / $12. Using one to boil eggs using careful timing and temperature control to make the process repeatable shouldn't be too hard.

I realised that to avoid the risk of an egg breaking and making a mess before solidifying, I should put the eggs in something inside the kettle. I don't want liquid egg coming into contact with theelement. I think an aluminium drink can is the ideal solution, being thin and of a good thermal conductor it won't interfere with the heat flow. Also they're cheap, plentiful and disposable in case of eggy mishap.



Oooh yes. I remember an 'egg scare' in 1988 when our Food and Agriculture Government Minister famously warned people about eggs being a source of salmonella and lost her job because it scared people and egg producers lost sales! While I wouldn't eat undercooked shellfish, pork or chicken I can't worry about everything. But thanks for the warning and reminder.

Hi again,


Ok, you've been warned, so sign here stating that you have been told and understand the risks:
"I, elfcurry, have read the egg warning and understand all the risks associated with not cooking eggs until firm",
signed_________________

On the more serious side, they also tell us that the safest handling of cooked foods is to get them into the refrigerator as soon as possible. I have a little problem with this myself as when i cook chicken parts i dont like to stick them into the fridge (for consumption tomorrow or later) right away because they are still so hot. So i tend to leave them out for a while to cool down and sometimes leave them out a little too long i think while im reading ETO and making replies
Maybe if i had a way to cool them down faster i could get them into the fridge faster, which would be nice. Eggs can go into cold water, but chicken is just a little more tricky. Maybe in plastic bags immersed in cold water?

 

[elfcurry]

Yes, it was a play on words. But, I'm still thinking under the circumstances alec_t has a good idea. All except for the automatic removal. But, now that I think about it.

If the lid comes up much like?..........waite a minute coffee pot lid, like automatic drip coffee maker the ones you put your thumb on and the hole lid comes up. If it's like that, you could attach a spring loaded trip and attach a rod in the interior to a tray,

1. Shuts Off

2. Trips the spring load

3. Lifts lid and raises egg basket.

Although, I would probably put a gear box between the spring load and the basket for a slow rise out of the water.

Edit: The perfect egg.

Edit:Edit: Kind of like putting a toaster and a automatic Tea Kettle together.

Edit:Edit:Edit: If anybody thought of this before I didn't read many of the previous post's. Sorry.

OK, you caught me.

I know I must seem like I'm trampling on people's ideas but if the lid were spring-loaded (it isn't) it would be designed to raise the lid and no more. My kettle lid is rarely raised in normal use as you hold it under the tap and the spout/lip is quite big enough to fill it.

I've just been to the village coffee shop and explained my project to a friend. I don't think I really need a lifting mechanism. As the egg will be eaten hot and I'll be hovering (metaphorically) it could make a sound when finished and I can get the eggs out just as I do now with manual cooking.

 

[elfcurry]

I have no idea. Some adjustment would be necessary for barometric pressure. Yet another input to the micro . Here's the link:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...xOedJEXIxgfo89wfGFR_R8w&bvm=bv.42080656,d.d2k

Now that was an interesting informative page [https://bondingwithfood.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/the-incredible-egg/
Thanks.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

Another simple way to make soft boiled eggs is to put in a pot (dont stack them though), add water, bring to a boil, let stand for say 1 to 3 minutes. Some experimentation for how long to let stand as per weight of one of the eggs (and starting egg temperature) and assuming they are all the same size.
They are said to come out less rubbery this way although i've never tried it myself (might do so in the near future however now that we've talked about it so much, makes me hungry).

 

[elfcurry]

That's how my woman cooks eggs and it's terrible for peeling, compared to my method. Sometimes peeling her eggs there's so much egg stuck to the shell I get the craps with it and just throw the whole thing in the trash and grab another egg. There's nothing worse than a massacred boiled egg.

"my woman" I hope she doesn't read this!

The main thing is weight of the egg vs cooking time, so eggs will have to be weighed. Then of course they need to be removed instantly from the hot water either by you or by the machine as if left in the water they will keep cooking. They will also keep cooking outside the water due to stored heat, so need to be eaten right away or cooled significantly right away, by you or the machine.

Eggs bought here in supermarkets come in packs of 6 or 12 all the same size. Since I usually get 'medium' ones, I've never considered that weight variation matters but it must do, as you say. For my purposes, if I stick to one size, I won't let this worry me once I've determined an ideal cooking time.

A pressure cooker won't significantly reduce the egg cooking time anyway, that only happens when it can run for sustained periods >100'C. Assuming your eggs are placed in cold water the egg liquid will rise in temp at a similar rate to the water temp rise, so the eggs will cook as the water is rising.

This is probably true. Maybe you could do an experiment: cook one or more eggs in a pressure cooker, and others in a normal open pan. Same conditions otherwise, and check the eggy results. Maybe to do a fair comparison the pressure cooker should be used with and without lid to be sure nothing else is different.

Re: container inside kettle to prevent mess...

Not necessary, you can get plenty of electric kettle/jugs with a metal body and the element is bonded to the underside of the metal cavity, leaving a clean metal cavity inside. My kettle is that type, and a friend had a similar kettle and used to boil eggs in it. The inside is basically a very deep metal saucepan.

"you can get..." Yes, but I want to use one I already have and the element is exposed. Anyway it's so much more satisfying to 'repurpose' something, find a new use for something to avoid more 'stuff' in landfill.

 

[elfcurry]

Hi again,


Ok, you've been warned, so sign here stating that you have been told and understand the risks:
"I, elfcurry, have read the egg warning and understand all the risks associated with not cooking eggs until firm",
signed_________________

On the more serious side, they also tell us that the safest handling of cooked foods is to get them into the refrigerator as soon as possible. I have a little problem with this myself as when i cook chicken parts i dont like to stick them into the fridge (for consumption tomorrow or later) right away because they are still so hot. So i tend to leave them out for a while to cool down and sometimes leave them out a little too long i think while im reading ETO and making replies
Maybe if i had a way to cool them down faster i could get them into the fridge faster, which would be nice. Eggs can go into cold water, but chicken is just a little more tricky. Maybe in plastic bags immersed in cold water?

OK then....
"I, elfcurry, have read the egg warning and understand all the risks associated with not cooking eggs until firm",
signed______ elfcurry ______

I think the risks of undercooked eggs are for young kids, the elderly or infirm or pregnant. None of those quite apply to me. For shellfish, pork or chicken I certainly do take it seriously.

It's funny they say you should refrigerate eggs at home but shops themselves don't bother!

I agree, I don't put hot food in the fridge either as it risks heating other food which should be kept cool. Maybe put it in a cool box with some ice for an hour? Mostly with a whole chicken I'll roast it and let it cool in the kitchen before putting in the fridge.

 

[Mr RB]

"my woman" I hope she doesn't read this!
...

She's proud to be my woman! And I'm proud to be her man.

Seriously I was talking with a guy some years back and he said something about "his partner", I asked "your business partner?" and he said defensively "no, you know, my partner.. at home" and I straight away got the message "Ahhh, got it! He's GAY". Days later I found out from someone else "his partner" was actually a woman, but he was going around telling everyone he was gay! Weird fellow. He was probably one of theose "Sensitive New Age Guys" or as I call them "Testicular Impaired Males" who watches Oprah and thinks he must now use word A instead of word B, you know, all that politically correct BS. Here in Australia we're a bit more direct there are less TIM's here.

Back on the eggy topic, your problem with a large water filled container is that even after the egg cooks to the desired amount it must be removed from the water as that will stay hot for a long time.

Have you considered getting rid of the water, using some type of low-mass direct heating surrounding the egg, which can cook the egg perfectly and then cool down in a few seconds, and maybe keep the egg at "warm" ready for eating (just in case you're watching Oprah and it takes to ten minutes to remember your egg).

 

[ccurtis]

The main thing is weight of the egg vs cooking time, so eggs will have to be weighed. Then of course they need to be removed instantly from the hot water either by you or by the machine as if left in the water they will keep cooking. They will also keep cooking outside the water due to stored heat, so need to be eaten right away or cooled significantly right away, by you or the machine.

To complicate matters further, the starting temp of the egg comes into play; though I can only guess what the impact is. Depends on the thermal capacity of egg matter.

 

[elfcurry]

To complicate matters further, the starting temp of the egg comes into play; though I can only guess what the impact is. Depends on the thermal capacity of egg matter.

This must be true but I'm fairly sure it comes under 'minor effects'. Since the mass of the water will be much more than the egg (in my case anyway) and I intend to start timing when the water boils (or reaches working temperature, say 95°C so it'll have time to get warm before the critical timed cooking takes place.

 

[Mr RB]

To complicate matters further, the starting temp of the egg comes into play; though I can only guess what the impact is. Depends on the thermal capacity of egg matter.

I'm not sure that will matter? Cooking will start at about X'C (far above ambient) and the main cooking will occur at a higher temp of Y'C.

You should be able to negate egg temp and negate starting water temp, and time the cooking cycle starting after water reaches X'C.

The egg size will still matter as it will take longer with a larger egg for the heat to get from the outer surface right through into the yolk, even with the water temp constant or known.

 

[MrAl]

OK then....
"I, elfcurry, have read the egg warning and understand all the risks associated with not cooking eggs until firm",
signed______ elfcurry ______

I think the risks of undercooked eggs are for young kids, the elderly or infirm or pregnant. None of those quite apply to me. For shellfish, pork or chicken I certainly do take it seriously.

It's funny they say you should refrigerate eggs at home but shops themselves don't bother!

I agree, I don't put hot food in the fridge either as it risks heating other food which should be kept cool. Maybe put it in a cool box with some ice for an hour? Mostly with a whole chicken I'll roast it and let it cool in the kitchen before putting in the fridge.

Hi again,


That's a good side point that you bring up, about refrigerating or not refrigerating uncooked eggs for medium to long term storage.

Since the recent storms that have hit this area and knocked out power for more than a few days, myself and others around here have been looking into long term storage of various kinds of foods. Non cooked eggs had come up because there has been a lot said about eggs stored in various places in the world where the eggs are NOT refrigerated.

The bottom line on this subject seems to be as follows. If the egg comes right from the chicken never being refrigerated, then there is apparently a longish shelf life when they are stored outside of the refrigerator, i think in a dry area. This supposedly works because of the internal construction of the chicken egg.
But for eggs that have already been placed in the refrigerator and allowed to get 'cold', bringing them back into the warmer room temperature area for any significant length of time could easily cause bacterial growth which is considered as food contamination. Supposedly this is because of the temperature CHANGE, not the temperature itself.
So if the egg came right from the chicken it can be stored on the shelf, but if it had been taken from the refrigerator then it must be used right away or nearly so.

If all of this sounds very inexact, that's good, because i have not found any exacting experiments that have been performed to prove or disprove any of this, with the exception of the fact that i find numerous writings that state that in some European countries they do in fact store eggs on the shelf but they do come right from the chicken and never get refrigerated. How long they actually last that way i dont know for sure, but two weeks or more seems common. What else we dont know is if there was any contamination but didnt bother those particular individuals at the time so it was always deemed "OK".

Also, i've never tried this myself so i can not verify any of this. Just that the writings i've found so far all suggest the above is true, and that is from writings that dont appear to be from the same author or copied from one to the other page.

Experimentation might not be too easy because you'd have to find a way to tell if the egg was contaminated. That may mean close examination of the contents after various time periods like 2 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 2 months, etc.

Perhaps someone here has experience storing eggs outside the refrigerator.

 

[ghostman11]

eggs are dated for 28 days for comsumption, keeping eggs in the fridge does indeed shorten the life if the egg is kept below 8C, but sometimes a bigger factor is wich way up you store a egg, to keep it simple store in a egg box pointy end down. eggs can still be considered very fresh upto 9-11 days. The reason i say this is because with fertile eggs you dont get a drop in hatch rate untill 9 days storage then its only very slight untill day 11 at wich point the protein starts to slowly denature


regards Jason

 

[alec_t]

Back in my childhood days I recall eggs being preserved in a bucket of waterglass (sodium silicate solution) :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterglass#Food_preservation