An Update On Tarrifs

The consequences of the Chinese tariffs.

Thanks for all the information you’ve provided.

The tariffs won’t stop us ordering from China, at least not blank PCB’s, because the US-based options are still much more expensive.
And they will become even more so, because my understanding is that they purchase the blank FR4 laminate from China.

All that has been accomplished is create another challenge and additional costs to small businesses like yours.

But Trump followers are beyond ecstatic because finally, FINALLY! the US is making China pay.
Just like Mexico paid for the wall.

For The Popcorn said:

Here's a new wrinkle. JLCPCB is REQUIRING an SSN (Social Security Number) to order.

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In Canada, we have SIN numbers. Is that also needed by JLCPCB?

JLC is no longer requiring SSNs. Instead, they are adding the cost of tariffs and related fees to your bill. Yes, shock of shocks, the consumer pays the tariff one way or another.

You may have to pay it to get your package or it may be added to your bill by the supplier or it may be bundled into the price but ultimately, it comes out of your pocket.

For The Popcorn said:

...but ultimately, it comes out of your pocket.

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A complete misunderstanding here. Like wall on the Mexican border that Mexico paid for, China is laying the tariffs. If you don't believe me, just ask the pumpkin man.

For The Popcorn said:

JLC is no longer requiring SSNs. Instead, they are adding the cost of tariffs and related fees to your bill. Yes, shock of shocks, the consumer pays the tariff one way or another.

You may have to pay it to get your package or it may be added to your bill by the supplier or it may be bundled into the price but ultimately, it comes out of your pocket.

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It seems that Trump is so stupid he doesn't realise what tariffs are?. it's the American customers who pay them - it's basically just an import tax.

Stupid? Do you consider President Autopen smart?
Simply, Trump realized that a $1.2 trillion/year trade deficit was fueling other economies, some of which were adversaries to the US and democracy (e.g., China), while our national debt was climbing out of control. He did more to control both in less than 4 months than Autopen and Obama did in 12 years combined.

Britain came to the table as has China. The only dummies are those who would do nothing about that trading deficit. Canada, EU, and Mexico are on the list.

jpanhalt said:

Stupid? Do you consider President Autopen smart?

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Stupid? Only stupid people think that dislike for one is an endorsement for the other.

Nigel Goodwin said:

It seems that Trump is so stupid he doesn't realise what tariffs are?. it's the American customers who pay them - it's basically just an import tax.

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When challenged by a reporter that consumers pay the tariffs, he actually said:

"No, I don't think so. It's the countries who pay the tariffs."

A five year old kid with a lemonade stand knows more about business than [long line of deleted expletives deleted] trump.

jpanhalt said:

Stupid? Do you consider President Autopen smart?
Simply, Trump realized that a $1.2 trillion/year trade deficit was fueling other economies

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Geez oh grief.

President Autopen? Have you seen trump sign executive orders? Somebody hands him a folder, he says "what's this about?", and his handler says "blah, blah, blah, foreigners, blah, bad, blah." trump lights up. "Oh, foreigners bad! I'll sign that!!!" and he scribbles with a Sharpie. He has denied signing orders that have his signature.

A balance of trade deficit is not the US being cheated. It means a lot of people in this country have the means to buy things from other countries. That is all it means.

Suppose everyone in the US has $10 to buy a jar of Tiptree Orange & Whisky Marmalade from Harrods in the UK. How many Louis Vuitton handbags will UK citizens (as if anybody can afford one) to make the balance of trade equal?

If you believe ANYTHING trump says, you are delusional.


[Sorry this has veered off the subject of tariffs, but when someone goes against all of the experts to defend trump's actions, it cannot be let slide. Discussing the impact of tariffs on products we all purchase is appropriate here. Praising a white supremist hell-bent on destroying the values of the US is not.]

For The Popcorn said:

When challenged by a reporter that consumers pay the tariffs, he actually said:

"No, I don't think so. It's the countries who pay the tariffs."

A five year old kid with a lemonade stand knows more about business than [long line of deleted expletives deleted] trump.

Geez oh grief.

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Try making a mature comment. Trump has done great in business, including the hospitality business, if that is what you consider a lemonade stand.

For The Popcorn said:

President Autopen? Have you seen trump sign executive orders?

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Yes

For The Popcorn said:

[Sorry this has veered off the subject of tariffs, but when someone goes against all of the experts to defend trump's actions, it cannot be let slide.

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Surely you exaggerate. When you say "all" you are most likely referring to only the people you call experts and are willing to listen to. However, you have proved to be a very poor listener to other views.

jpanhalt said:

Try making a mature comment. Trump has done great in business, including the hospitality business, if that is what you consider a lemonade stand.

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How many bankruptcies?

How many failed businesses?

How many contractors not fully paid for work done?

How many employees not fully paid?

No sir. trump is not a successful businessman.

But running a country is not running a business anyway. Businesses make a profit. Running a nation is about serving and protecting its citizens.


But arguing with people like you who worship at his feet is absolutely futile. You ignore facts, drop into alternative realities and when all else fails start the what-about-isms.

jpanhalt said:

Try making a mature comment. Trump has done great in business, including the hospitality business, if that is what you consider a lemonade stand.

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The simple benchmark of whether he is carrying forward enough losses to cancel his earnings from investments and partnerships and not pay and significant income taxes proves (to me and most rational people who understand accounting) that Trump is not a business person who is able to manage or grow a business.

JP;
I don’t fundamentally disagree with the desire to balance the trade deficit.
What I viscerally disagree is its execution.
If you want to subdue the elephant in the room, China, you cannot simultaneously declare an economic war to the rest of the would. The USA is not strong enough anymore to win an economic war against China alone.
The USA right now needs partners, it needs friends. And unfortunately Trump’s foreign policy has shown the World that at best he acts like a bully, at worst like a dangerously deranged individual.
The most glaring example, but not the only one, is its quarrel with Canada. Why, oh lord, why?

A trade deficit is expected when we use one country with a relatively low average quality of life for manual labor (electronics assembly) and high damage to environment (tin mining and extraction of rare earth metals from the tin mining residue) while prohibiting exports to China of the high technology devices and military hardware.

I view imports the same way I view mining.
- We pay for/use energy to extract the ore and there is a benefit. Yes, it's energy intensive and not the best use of energy because there is plenty of product in circulation that could be recycled instead but it's just to costly to gather it all and recycle vs mining new.
- We use low cost labor overseas because we are unwilling to give up huge levels of market demand that can be filled at low prices that would evaporate if all products must be filled in the US with expensive US labor and many fewer widgets would be sold.

Also, there just aren't enough people in the workforce to do what is being done today by currently employed people plus all the manufacturing that someone wants to "reshore".

Once mass reshoring starts, there will be huge battles for labor and labor inflation will soar - especially for the non-educated, skilled hands.

JLCPCB has updated their tariff policy again. At least the low-cost Global Standard Direct option has been restored.

For jpanhalt and others who believe the lie that tariffs aren't paid by the consumer, please review the following from JLC's web site.

For the low cost shipping option, JLC will not collect the tariff and duty charges on the customers behalf. These charges WILL BE COLLECTED from the CONSUMER at the time of delivery. The charge will include the tariff, brokerage fees and possibly be subject to the MINIMUM tariff fee of $200 imposed by trump.

For DHL/UPS/FEDEX shipping, JCB will charge THE CONSUMER the estimated tariff, duty and brokerage fees when the order is placed. Note carefully, JLC will charge the consumer and pay the fees on the consumer's behalf.

Digikey, Mouser and Avnet have similar policies which is listed as "tariff recovery fee" or something similar.

As Sargent Friday said, "Just the facts ma'am."

For The Popcorn said:

JLCPCB has updated their tariff policy again. At least the low-cost Global Standard Direct option has been restored.

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In my experience the low cost shipping option seems to be dependent on the value of the order, and once that value exceeds a certain limit (I've no idea what that might be) - but I've recently been ordering various 5 x small prototype boards, and as they weren't time sensitive, I used the low cost option every time. But when I've ordered production quantities (low hundreds) the low cost option isn't available - I suppose it's probably the weight, more than the value, but that's pretty well the same thing.

A week or so ago when I checked for this same order, the low cost option wasn't listed. The only options were DHL and UPS with prepaid tariffs.

I imagine JLC is trying to figure this out just like the rest of us, and dealing with a lot of complaints no matter what they do.

For The Popcorn said:

A week or so ago when I checked for this same order, the low cost option wasn't listed. The only options were DHL and UPS with prepaid tariffs.

I imagine JLC is trying to figure this out just like the rest of us, and dealing with a lot of complaints no matter what they do.

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A very old saying is "don't kill the messenger", but they very often get blamed.

JLCPCBs website uses the shipping address to offer various shipping options. I don't think the UK has implemented 130% tariffs so they still get the economy shipping option (as does Canada).

ZipZapOuch said:

JLCPCBs website uses the shipping address to offer various shipping options. I don't think the UK has implemented 130% tariffs so they still get the economy shipping option (as does Canada).

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Like I said, only on small orders, I've ordered three small production lot's of PCB's today, none offered me the economy shipping - not that I wanted it anyway, on this occasion.