12DC Sockets

[cowboybob]

Proud of ya, Graham.

We're all here when you need us.

 

[Muttley600]

Proud of ya, Graham.

We're all here when you need us.

Thanks Paul, that means a lot **broken link removed**

ok, after getting up late, can't think why that happened **broken link removed** I just took readings for final two missing toys to work out needed power draw **broken link removed**

so here are the calculations I did for the bike

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& here are my calculations for the toys: Revision 3

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Which means if I make a working circuit 10A will still be over the top, ditched 15A idea

So if I throw ideas of componants your way, can you tell me if they will work, the reason I want to clean up incoming voltage is this type of bike I ride has a habit of chewing up the regulator meaning when they are failing they give off voltage spikes of up to 28V some lads from club have had them measured, it is a common problem until you put heatsink on back of them

So even if I do a wire one first, I'd still like to add stable power supply at 12V so that means I could work out all calculations on that as well

Then we have our european cigarette lighter plugs with little pcb in, I presume this limits damage to product it is providing power too **broken link removed**

 

[cowboybob]

Numbers look OK.

I'd still like to add stable power supply at 12V[QUOTE/]

A stable 12 VDC supply at a 10A current rating is no small task and I think that, rather than trying to regulate out the occasional spikes (the 10A requirement complicates the issue), it might be better to protect your existing 12 VDC ( + or - a few volts) system from major spikes with a small circuit that, essentially, senses the over voltage condition instantly and cuts off power to your distribution box (at the cost of a fuse).

I'll add a schematic and parts list shortly (gotta go sim this to make sure it's right).

 

[cowboybob]

Numbers look OK.

I'd still like to add stable power supply at 12V

A stable 12 VDC supply at a 10A current rating is no small task and I think that, rather than trying to regulate out the occasional spikes (the 10A requirement complicates the issue), it might be better to protect your existing 12 VDC ( + or - a few volts) system from major spikes with a small circuit that, essentially, senses the over voltage condition instantly and cuts off power to your distribution box (at the cost of a fuse).

I'll add a schematic and parts list shortly (gotta go sim this to make sure it's right).

 

[Muttley600]

If my theory is all ok, I'll do a rough schematic next week, I'll try & find a free one computer one from somewhere, that way I can adapt it as I go **broken link removed**

Then I can put a list of parts together to see how I can manage the basics before asking about things I'm only going to be able to guess at **broken link removed**

Better go & get my passport sorted as off to France & Germany this summer with my bike club

Looking forward to this project now again **broken link removed**

 

[Muttley600]

Numbers look OK.

That's good **broken link removed**

it might be better to protect your existing 12 VDC ( + or - a few volts) system from major spikes with a small circuit that, essentially, senses the over voltage condition instantly and cuts off power to your distribution box (at the cost of a fuse).

I'll add a schematic and parts list shortly (gotta go sim this to make sure it's right).

See, thats why I love this forum, different ideas **broken link removed**

Will look forward to your take on it all Paul, thanks

 

[cowboybob]

See, thats why I love this forum, different ideas

It is a good forum. Best one I've seen thus far.

Here's the Over Voltage Tripper schematic w/ part numbers.

The Zener (Z1) can be substituted with a different nominal value than what I chose (24 VDC, which means that at greater than 24VDC, the zener starts to conduct, which fires the SCR, which shorts the line thereby blowing the fuse). You can pick a "trip" voltage that better suits you (20 VDC, 22 VDC, etc).

The sim doesn't show the fuse blown (only displays that during an active DC analysis), but note the output voltages for each set of battery VDC output levels. With the fuse blown, output is 95 micro VDC. That's what little voltage "squeaks" through (my not so professional term...) before the fuse blows.

View attachment 60562 View attachment 60563


CBB

 

[Muttley600]

That looks interesting, just mulling idea over, so if I wanted 10A box & battery's boil at 15.2v (so I've read)
One of these could be set for 15A giving space for reg to do normal work but would protect over voltage to box.

Will continue in a sec

Can you hear my brain whirring, give me time to go buy smokes & have a coffee
You've started something now.lol

 

[cowboybob]

Graham,

I think maybe you're worrying a tad bit too much.

Vehicular battery/charging systems ordinarily maintain a controlled 13.5 VDC (give or take a few tenths) potential across the entire electrical system. What is further controlled is the current that is allowed to flow (or not) as the load on the system is increased/decreased. This is important to remember.

So, when the battery, or any other load on the system, requires additional power (aka, AMPS), the output of the alternator is automatically adjusted to supply it.

That said, I would not spend a lot of thought on a method to further regulate it as it is already a pretty thoroughly regulated system.

Now. I don't know your particular bike's circumstances in this regard. But my gut feeling is that it's no different than most. The original concept/design you have for the auxiliary power box is just fine as it is.

That's not to say that fused protection isn't necessary. It is. And I'm sure that you've already taken that into account.

Now I'm gonna go have a smoke. Or two. Think I'll make it three...

I've been sitting in front of this computer WAY too long.

Paul

 

[Muttley600]

Graham,

I think maybe you're worrying a tad bit too much.


Now I'm gonna go have a smoke. Or two. Think I'll make it three...

I've been sitting in front of this computer WAY too long.

Paul

ooooops, sorry Paul **broken link removed**

have been trawling for ideas

found adjustable reg here

maybe one for jack 5 & one for 6-10 **broken link removed**

you can tell im new to this cant you **broken link removed**

just dont you go hurting yourself when you fall off the chair laughing **broken link removed**

is it possible to fit two of these along with another 5v reg I have, do they need any more parts

need thinking time, Paul, really sorry for keeping you on computer, feel bad about that

lets call it a night while i chew it all over

Thanks for waiting...............Graham

 

[cowboybob]

Don't worry about me. When I stop having fun, I simply quit.

Ain't near ready to quit.

Man, pieces parts are expensive over there!

Good night.

 

[Muttley600]

Ain't near ready to quit.

Man, pieces parts are expensive over there!

Good night.

Glad your not annoyed by my lack of consideration, I do honestly feel bad

Parts work out dearer over here as mouser has £15 delivery fee then I have to pay 20% customs
Digikey send free if parts total £50 + customs, it's a no win if rapid online or maplin don't do parts I want

Maybe I post photo of these little blighters in cig sockets, hopefully you could help me identify them to put my mind at rest on this score, I keep remembering 4pyros words about experiance & indeed your words running round my head too
Think I've got to learn to trust more, just feels like I'm cheating myself by not achieving what i had planned, but again that's me being ott because I need to get it throughmy thick skull that it simPly doesn't need it

Sorry about earlier, goodnight my friend
Best regards
Graham

 

[cowboybob]

Graham,

Don't feel bad on my account. I fully understand how a project like this can expand as your brain starts to see the possibilities.

Don't overlook the need for heat sinks, especially for the 5 VDC regulators in this system (also for 12 VDC, if you go that route, but it will be less of an issue).

By way of explanation, a DC regulator, in order to reduce a voltage ( say from 12 to 5 VDC), has to "unload" 7 volts. Without going into how, just understand that to do this, the excess 7 volts is converted to heat. And the greater the load placed on the regulator, the greater the heat that is shed.

Given your basic plan and load requirements, the regulators could easily get hot enough to melt plastic, wiring insulation, etc.

Don't want to scare you. Just take this little factoid into consideration during your construction.

CBB

 

[Muttley600]

Ok now your talking my language, that makes perfect sense
So to grasp this notion & to add to the overload of reading I've done over the last day.eek.lol

The heat is coming from converting V, as I have found a simple way (cheating for time being I know.lol) with 5v thingy for front box that is small for what it is after reading about regulators & you seem to have a way of dealing with over voltage which was a concern

So my next questions are, looking at componant I linked to last night & thinking of stabilising 12v won't actually create much heat (of course at this point I'm guessing.lol)

So clean power, is it created by stable V or what are Capacitors used for?

Then I'm sure your better able to understand in thread I found on here about this

Will get link in a minute
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/regulated-12vdc-from-car.91800/

So the problem is the required A & ending up with something the size of a housebrick I think, so how about just concentrating on 5A rear box 12V

Wish I could learn to let go :-/

So drawing little power off a 5A reg it should stay coolish?

So know I would love to make dummy loads to try these ideas & to see how hot these things get
I'll post photo of little pcb in cig lighter plug tonight when I get home

At least I'm exploring/learning while doing this which was the main goal of all this, as you say there is nothing wrong with original idea but as long as your happy to hear me out I can keep learning what is possible & what's not & the reasons why & that only comes with knowledge, so I'm very grateful for fact that your willing to broaden my understanding
Thanks a million
Graham

 

[cowboybob]

Good morning.

OK, first things first;

So clean power, is it created by stable V or what are Capacitors used for?

Capacitors (electrolytic, in this case, or polarized) are used to "smooth" a DC signal,.i.e., even out small variations (AC "ripple") on the DC peak voltage.

They aren't much use for "stabilizing" the DC to handle, for example, a sudden load. For instance, when you added a camera (LOW load) or a pair of warming gloves (HIGH load) to the system. That's the job of a regulator.

So drawing little power off a 5A reg it should stay coolish?

Yes. Relatively speaking.

I'm going to go look at the link you provided. I may have to come back and edit this post.

OK. looked at the post.

There are two issues here: "reverse polarity" and "low voltage drop-out".

Most commercial electronic devices have built-in reverse polarity protection. I wouldn't worry about providing more. Resistive devices (the gloves) don't care about it.

Low voltage drop-out is also, generally speaking, not a concern as for most devices. Understand that practically all electronic "stuff" designed and sold as "12 VDC" devices (which is to say, automotive) actually work off something less than 12 VDC (more like 5 VDC) which is why they have built-in regulators. Not all, to be sure, but stuff designed to work off 12 VDC is pretty thoroughly protected against low voltage situations (their response is, for the most part, to just quit working).

Your pal,

CBB

 

[Muttley600]

Good afternoon Paul
By posting at 12, does that mean you were posting on here at 7am your time.eek!
I'd been at work 5 hrs by then, only another 4 to go now, weekends are 7-7 for me

Your last two Posts have been really helpful, so basically no matter what way I look at this now I feel like I can fully appreciate reasons for simply not needing regulation on 12v & yes, I can hear that big sigh of relief from you.lol

That means I don't get to go anywhere near as complicated on this project as I thought, hopefully the radio will be more of a challenge ;-)

So now I can get on with a schematic to run by you to make sure it's all ok, can I fit a resettable fuse to your part or not?
Would a 15v limiter be ok or higher/lower needed?
I'll put list of what parts I would like to use also & at some point I should be able to get photos of finished item up.
Would rather order all parts together.

So the only question I can think of now is, just what are those little miniature pcb boards for inside cigarette plug *confused*

Yes, I know, it doesn't take a lot.lol

Thanks for explaining things & helping me understand reasons as to either doing something or not rather than just saying it is not needed ;-)

I've had some good news today, I ran out of solder a bit back, I had always used some that my dad have given me, joints we're always great. Then I brought some new stuff & it looked really dull, wasn't even nice to solder with. I even brought a new tip for iron thinking that might of been the problem.......well, went to parents house for cuppa earlier & I asked him if he could remember name of old stuff, he did but better than that, he had more of it
I now have a new 1ib reel of 1970 solder that is really easy to work with & provides ace joints
To say I'm over the moon is an understatement, just I nick of time before I do wiring on these boxes

Hope your having a good day
Best Regards
Graham

Better do some work now

 

[cowboybob]

hopefully the radio will be more of a challenge

It will, indeed.

can I fit a resettable fuse to your part or not

Sort of depends on it's physical size, but no reason not to use one.

So the only question I can think of now is, just what are those little miniature pcb boards for inside cigarette plug

Don't know. Post a pic for me.

went to parents house for cuppa earlier & I asked him if he could remember name of old stuff, he did but better than that, he had more of it
I now have a new 1ib reel of 1970 solder that is really easy to work with & provides ace joints

Lucky you! I've always been amazed that the smell of solder, as I remember it from when I was a kid, is exactly the same today. 1 lb ought to last you a good while. Is it the thin stuff (SO much better for electronic work)?

73s

Paul

 

[Muttley600]

CBB

You mean solder smells, can't smell anything since smoking.lol

It is 1.2mm Ersin multicore, found out it is still sold
1lb should last me my lifetime. lol

Will post photo later

Good news on fuse, well fit it all in box, I like a challenge

Hope your days going well, only hour & half til home time. Yippee

Graham

 

[cowboybob]

Well, not the solder, but the resin "flux" they put in it.

 

[Muttley600]

Well, not the solder, but the resin "flux" they put in it.

I'll have to trust you on that **broken link removed**

ok, on photo below you can see our cigarette plugs & the bottom of these boards they put in them

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I have gone to DIN plugs as they are smaller but they haven't got these in
We have two types, on with two wires in:
Then we have my affectionately named 'chunky monkeys' (referred to as CM)with boards in:
you can now see why I wanted to switch to smaller sockets for tank bag, as four of CM's would have filled bag, also would of being good to have whatever these parts are in rear box out of the way **broken link removed**

sat nav had CM
phone CM (now covered with 5V reg)
camera CM (now covered with 5V reg)

Autocom direct wired
radio direct wired
heated gear direct wired
scottoiler direct wired
bluetooth module direct wired

So onto what they are, photo of front of board

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then photo with part numbers

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Not that my OCD is that bad I would buy two leads so I could explore one of them or anything **broken link removed**

Looking forward to your findings **broken link removed**

& for a change I've actually got the photos the right size **broken link removed**

well, least I made it before getting kicked off computer.lol