USA supliers of Raw Phenolic PCB ?¿?¿

[Oblivion]

Does any one know were I can get some.....

"1oz double sided “Paper Phenolic” PCB's"

More Preferably Pre-sensitized for development (the positive method) but that isn't a requirement. I think I want approximately 5~10 sheets at 6x6~12x12 inches a sheet but that all depends on prices. (my cap is around $50)

I've searched ALL OVER goggle and turned up nothing but PCB prototype manufacturers, Inadequate EBay auctions, and small expensive suppliers.

Any one who sells raw PCB's at a reasonable price, doesn’t have exactly what I need or is in a country that reams you for shipping. I want Paper phenolic because it is easer to drill and cut. Plus from what I've seen, it' seems to be somewhat cheaper. I want double sided PCB because if you’re going to etch your own circuits, you may as well "Go dense or go home". Plus another reason to get it is for an excellent ground plane if you don't etch both of the sides.

I've been using copper-less board with the point-to-point method up until now and that makes it practically imposable surface mount.

Thanks for the help

-Oblivion

 

[mneary]

I assume you're in the Western hemisphere because you're using inches. (A location entry in your UserCP would be nice.) Mine was made by GC Chemicals who have outlets all over US and Canada; I got mine at Fry's electronics. I have a single sided 12" x 18" 1/32" positive sensitized for $4.90. It may have been mismarked or out dated, I don't know.

For an excellent selection of GC products, I always check Circuit Specialists first after my local retailers.

Although it's more expensive, fiberglas isn't a lot harder to work with. You just need to invest in some carbide tools. (OK, carbide bits do break easily.) And as lead-free soldering uses higher temperatures, you might find it harder to find traditional phenolic materials.

 

[Oblivion]

Thank you for your help sir.

"I assume you're in the Western hemisphere because you're using inches."

The first word in the subject header was "USA" so yes... western hemi
(But I can see why you would miss that; I'll fix my personal data soon)

"single sided 12" x 18" 1/32" positive sensitized for $4.90"

Damn, that’s a good deal!! That’s FR4 though right? (You didn't specify)

"For an excellent selection of GC products, I always check Circuit Specialists first after my local retailers."

I've been there; a good spot but they just don't have what I want. (For PCB's that is)

" fiberglas isn't a lot harder to work with. You just need to invest in some carbide tools."

Not just carbide bits (You said, "Tools” but I assume you meant drill bits) but also a $$$ drill press so I can use them with out breaking them a thousand times a minute and a $$$ guillotine to cut it with as you can't cut FR4 well with any thing else (unless you want to go thru blades just for kicks.) I can just score and snap good phenolic the same way you cut window glass just easer and safer. Plus FR4 gets itchy fiberglass bits everywhere that I would just rather not have to deal with.

In all realty I will probably have to settle for either single sided phenolic or try the double-sided FR4 stuff. I was just hoping that I was missing some key supplier or some thing.

"And as lead-free soldering uses higher temperatures, you might find it harder to find traditional phenolic materials."

I said nothing a bought using Lead-Free any thing. This is my hobby, not my health and safety certified business.

And just because they may or may not be able to make Phenolic PCB stand up to lead-free soldering conditions. Doesn’t mean that they don’t still make phenolic PCB’s that are them selves lead-free. But intended for, or will at least work with lead based soldering. And it certainly doesn’t mean that they haven’t made “for-lead-use” phenolic PCB’s in the past that I might happen across. But this is all just speculation for the moment. Any way...

Thank you again for trying.

-Oblivion

P.S. Almost all of electronics is measured with the Imperial system. (In inches)

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2009/02/PCBDesignTutorialRevA.pdf

Bottom of page 4 “Imperial and Metric”

 

[mneary]

My big board is phenolic. It's actually labeled in metric and 'subtitled' in imperial. All of my GC Chemical boards are dimensioned in metric.

Problem with the world going lead-free is that it impacts what flows down to our hobby supply. If a certain cheap phenolic material can't withstand 260c it's as likely to be discontinued as to be upgraded.

I slice my FR4 with a Dremel cut-off wheel. I tend to make pretty small surface-mount projects that have at least one dimension that's short enough to get away with. I used to use aluminum carbide wheels (messy, yes) but I just got some better wheels. I think they're carbide-tipped steel; miniature versions of my big blades.

But, yes, for the drills I cheat and use a drill press. There are some attachments for a Dremel that I'm told are worth trying.

 

[Oblivion]

Thanks mneary.

Firstly I'd like to apologies. I read over my last post and it seamed to be a little on the hostile side toward you, witch was not my Intentions at all. You were only trying to help me out and for that I am great full. As a token of my appreciation I have added to your reputation.

My big board is phenolic. It's actually labeled in metric and 'subtitled' in imperial. All of my GC Chemical boards are dimensioned in metric.

Cool, I may get some if they still have any. You said you got it at frys electronics right? Is that local to Cali or do they have any branches in WA. If not I could always find another supplier through MG chemicals web site.

MG Chemicals is based in Canada according to their web site. Does Canada use metric? Practically every one except America uses metric so I guess it is to be expected. I actually like the metric system more than Imperial and wish America would give it up and join the crowd.

Problem with the world going lead-free is that it impacts what flows down to our hobby supply. If a certain cheap phenolic material can't withstand 260c it's as likely to be discontinued as to be upgraded.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They banned CFC inhalers in favor of HFA because of the ozone; Witch is cost effective for the pharmaceutical companies because they can charge more for their new inhalers. But it really screws over the small guy who now has to spend more for inhalers that are less effective (IMHO).

I slice my FR4 with a Dremel cut-off wheel. I tend to make pretty small surface-mount projects that have at least one dimension that's short enough to get away with. I used to use aluminum carbide wheels (messy, yes) but I just got some better wheels. I think they're carbide-tipped steel; miniature versions of my big blades.

My Dremel is a pile. It over heats fast and it's huge. Actually it's technically a "mini rotary hand grinder" as that’s the generic term. The reason it sucks is it is home made and uses a 12volt 300+watt CAN motor (all I had at the time) that needs a 12v supply of biblical proportions. Right now I’m running it off a travel trailer battery charger that’s max amperage is at 20 amps, and it can’t keep up with the motor for long. (60+watts shy according to Ohms law)

I really don't want to deal with fiberglass and all the trebles that come with it.

You said small surface-mount projects. So... PIC or AVR? I use PICs, code in assembly. I'm not partial I just used PICs first and never looked back.

But, yes, for the drills I cheat and use a drill press. There are some attachments for a Dremel that I'm told are worth trying.

One thing I heard bout carbide, is that to get the best life out of them you need to use them at high RPMs. Some thing like 30K but I can't confirm that as it was just gossip. (That seems really high)

Thanks again

-Oblivion

 

[3v0]

You can buy a nice table top drill press from harbor freight for about $35 if you watch for a sale. They do not run at high RPM but can be used with carbide bits. As far as I can tell a carbide bit will do better at a higher RMP but does no worse then a HSS at slower speeds.

Carbide bits last about 25 times longer then HSS. I use resharpened ones that cost between 25 cents and 1 dollar each.

 

[Oblivion]

Thanks 3v0

I'll keep that in mind, Is it/are they big? I'm space limited but for ~50 I’m willing to check things out. Harbor Freight tools right? I’ve heard of them but have never dealt with them. And as far as speed, I could always modify it some how (so long as the bearings can handle it).

 

[Oblivion]

I’ve just checked there web site and the cheapest thing they have right now is $80.

 

[3v0]

Yup you have to wait for them to go on sale. I think it happens several times a year. It works well enough without modification.

**broken link removed**