WSJ: Right to Repair Article

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/we-need-the-right-to-repair-our-gadgets-1441737868

Epson is the same way. Parts are relatively easy to get. Repair manuals - Not.

 

[jpanhalt]

And our cars, and our...

Auto manufacturers have many "dealer only" parts. While technically available, the prices on those parts can be exorbitant. Just picking Ford as an example, the co-pay for its extend service plans probably more than covers the dealer cost for parts plus some.

John

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

The GM service tool is going subscription based if you can afford the tool. But you can get 3 day access for < $100. Without something your stuck. In order to do "secure stuff" e.g. keys, radios etc, you have to work for a bonified company or a licensed locksmith etc.

GM won't even give you part numbers.

A scanner helps. At least you won't take the car in when the car slipped on gravel and the ABS set a code. Oxygen sensors are being put, I think purposely, in a hard to reach areas.

Toyota has been great for parts and typically they have very long time support. I don't have the time to do even the simple (oil, brakes) maintenance any more. I used to take the valve cover off by '82 Toyota yearly to adjust the valves. Basically took minutes to do. Had one of two valve covers replaced on a 2000 GM model and your talking $400-$500 just to replace a gasket. GM uses a stupid gasket anyway. I think goop. The Toyota used an oval O-ring. Aftermarket cast valve covers is the only way to fix the problem permanently for the GM car.

 

[jpanhalt]

Talk about hard to reach places, Ford has put a pressure sensor for its Fusion A/C buried in the dash. Several articles talk about 4 to 6 hours of labor (removing the entire dash and instrument panel) and a <$20 part to fix it. The A/C won't work while the error code exists. As I recall, it was something like a high pressure sensor. In a normal, not overcharged A/C unit, is that really a problem?

As for simple stuff like oil changes, I let others do it. For more important things, like a set of brakes that caught on fire, I find time to fix them myself.

John

 

[large_ghostman]

It all seems a bit self defeating, surely for it to work all companies in a sector would have to agree?
I say this because since I can remember, my dad has banged on about years ago people brought the products that lasted. He was saying back then cars and such where made to last and manufactures would make boasts about how well built etc. My mum is the champ though, she has a old Black and white portable TV she got as a gift secondhand when she was 9 or 10.
Its never broken down! She has my Grand mothers kitchen radio thats older than my mum and that still works. Surely considering waste and finite resources it just dosnt make sense to make crap? Ok so people might end up paying more for a TV, but wouldnt most people spend a bit more money to have something that lasts?
I wonder what things will be like when I am the age of some on here...........Will there even be electric around? Maybe oil etc will last me out and maybe even my kids (if I have any), but what about my future Grandchildren? Do we leave them in the dark unable to read the letter that says sorry for no oil or electric or many other things we had that you dont, its just that we all wanted cheap TV's and stuff and although we new one day it would run out, to be honest we didnt care much.
I wonder which generation will be the one to write the letter?
I dont want it to be mine or even my future kids.......... It would be so cool if people wernt selfish and just said, tell you what not matter what happens I will only ever buy 2 TV's or whatever in my life time, if they break then they break and I do without. How many people do you think it would take to do that and make things change?

Sorry I dont mean to be funny but I am 15, if things go in my favor I should have at least 60 years ahead of me. so if I have kids when I am say 30, and they have kids at 30. then really we are talking about my future grandchildren that will suffer! I wonder how many of the people over say 40 or 50 on here would have done more if they had known there grand children would of suffered? But most likely it wont be your grand children (my generation) that pay the price, but my grandchildren. Kind of a very very sad thought to have at 15.............

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/we-need-the-right-to-repair-our-gadgets-1441737868

Epson is the same way. Parts are relatively easy to get. Repair manuals - Not.

As far as Domestic Electronics goes even authorised dealers usually no longer get circuit diagrams, repairs are supposed to be board replacement only so the service manuals don't provide circuits (for the same reason the manufcaturers don't keep individual spares either, only a limited number of replacement PCB's - which soon run out).

Basically it's down to cost, good service and spares provision is EXPENSIVE - when profit margins were high manufacturers could afford to keep all the spares and offer top service, but with the pitiful margins these days it's not at all practical.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

Back when i got started there was "Sams Photofacts", if anyone here happens to remember that. It was comforting to know that for most TV sets you could order a photofact folder and get all kinds of data like schematics and they even had voltage readings right on the schematic so tech's could fix them. These days it's hard to get anything out of a company of any kind as i think they are afraid someone is going to steal their design or something.
Also these days things become obsolete overnight

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hi,

Back when i got started there was "Sams Photofacts", if anyone here happens to remember that. It was comforting to know that for most TV sets you could order a photofact folder and get all kinds of data like schematics and they even had voltage readings right on the schematic so tech's could fix them. These days it's hard to get anything out of a company of any kind as i think they are afraid someone is going to steal their design or something.
Also these days things become obsolete overnight

See my post above - it's because it's not cost effective to do that with the give away prices these days.

If you paid $1500 for the TV you now pay $500 for, THEN you could expect service as it used to be.

 

[JoeJester]

When does something become cost effective to repair?

If you were restoring old equipment, then the customer makes the decision on what your services are worth. If it's everyday electronics, you weigh the cost of repair vice the price of new. Included in your review is all the new features you're getting with the newer electronics.

Usually when a repair estimate got to 50% of new, I asked the client what they wanted to do. Most opted for new.

In the automotive world there is "real time". They had the "average time" it took an average mechanic to do a job. The service centers know their shop hourly rate and priced their services according to the average time. Naturally, an experienced technician could beat that time and earn more money in an 8 hour day than the average technician.

Were there dog's that ate your lunch with the average times? Sure, but you made up for it with all those "beat the averages job".

Sperry Tech had the same for consumer electronics. I think I still have my sperry tech info in the garage. Unfortunately, that data is 20 years old, but you could see how they laid out the estimates to repair.

Attached is National Instruments "availability" tutorial. In it, you will see the useful life of instruments from NI's prospective

 

[MrAl]

See my post above - it's because it's not cost effective to do that with the give away prices these days.

If you paid $1500 for the TV you now pay $500 for, THEN you could expect service as it used to be.

Hi there Nigel,

Thanks for that insight.

I also found them to be paranoid. A while back i sent a hand written letter to Energizer suggesting an improvement to one of their battery charger designs. They sent a letter back that included the *whole* letter that i had sent to them, stating that they could not accept the letter because they may already have that option in the works. I had to crack up when i read that. They actually sent the whole letter and the whole envelope i had sent to them. Funny though, they had to have read it or else they would not know how to comment about a possible design change, as it could have been a letter asking about information about one of their products or just about anything else.
I find though that i dont really like Energizer products anymore. I had too many early failures.