wot a mess with press n peel

[spuffock]

I'm doing something really wrong, aren't I?
Can anyone suggest why?
Thanks

 

[3v0]

With some luck a P&P user will post but for now let me give it a try.

It looks like you did not iron it long enough or with a hot enough iron. I use Pulsar TTP and a laminator. Once you use a laminator you will not want to use an iron again.

It could be a non clean PCB, I still think it was the iron. A clean PCB is important but a scrub with a scotch bright pad and dish detergent will remove finger print oils and scuff up the surface a bit.

3v0

 

[duffy]

That pattern looks like what you get if you lay the board flat to dry instead of on its edge. The remaining beads of water evaporate and leave deposits. Try a final rinse with distilled water.

Also, if you aren't using a heater roller, invest in the £200 or so to get one, you will be much happier.

 

[3v0]

That pattern looks like what you get if you lay the board flat to dry instead of on its edge. The remaining beads of water evaporate and leave deposits. Try a final rinse with distilled water.

Also, if you aren't using a heater roller, invest in the £200 or so to get one, you will be much happier.

I blot mine near dry with a paper towel and air dry the rest.

EDIT heated roller == laminator ?

 

[duffy]

I'm concerned about the paper towel leaving fibers and "sizing" contaminants.

 

[flat5]

Good info here.

 

[3v0]

I'm concerned about the paper towel leaving fibers and "sizing" contaminants.

That does not seem to be a problem. Rinising with distilled water is a good idea but I do not need to do it and our water contains a lot of minerals.

The board does need to be clean but in general most people are overconcerned with it. The major problem is heating the toner to get it to fuse to the PCB.

 

[duffy]

Yes, a hand iron is nearly useless, a heated-roller fuser is almost a necessity. I have a DynaArt "Superfuser", that fixed 90% of the problems.

It's the remaining 10% that cause the grief.

You might want to try a new toner cartridge, spuffock. Also, some printers seem to do a better job than others - I've noticed a print from this Brother 9420CN never works as well as the printer we had in the old building.

 

[3v0]

There is info on the pulsar site about the brother.


Not all laser printers are equal.

One tip for people new to making PCB with any method. A smaller PCB is easier to make the a large one. Start small.

Duffy about the only time a PCB does not come out well is if I goof. What sort of problems are you having ?

EDIT: Back some years ago toner transfer was still rather experimental. At this point if you have the right stuff it is mostly a done deal.

 

[duffy]

The toner doesn't stick. It flakes off in an odd way during the etching process, under a magnifying glass you can see the traces split and start to curl lengthwise.

Thanks for the link. My printer's not listed, but others from this same manufacturer are.

 

[3v0]

How many times do you run it through the laminator. I do it 4 times and flip the PCB over each time. I end up with a slightly wider trace but not enough to cause problmes.

 

[duffy]

FOUR times? I often run it through twice, have noticed the same flattening and widening of the traces, but it doesn't seem to make an improvement to how well it sticks over running it through once.

I'll try running it through 4 times, what the hell.

 

[3v0]

There are only two things it can be. The first is the toner not melting enough to stick. The other would be the PCB is not clean enough to let the toner stick. It sure looks like you are taking care of that.

I use a scotch bright pad which leaves scratches on the copper. Some people sand it. I am not sure if this is needed but it does not seem to cause problems.

Could be that the toner does not stick to the PCB unless the PCB hits a given temp. You are melting the toner but it is not sticking? Just guessing.

 

[HarveyH42]

Copper oxidizes quickly, you need to clean it shiny just before you do the transfer. I use an old T-shirt to hold and handle the board, to avoid finger prints. Mostly I use steel wool, then wipe it down with a little acetone (same stuff I use to remove the toner after the etch). Seldom got a bad board, until... I bought a refilled (recycled) toner cartridge, now I get millions of tiny pinholes. Not pretty, like before, but they still work. Definitely not worth saving $23. Guess it's okay for printing memos, not so good for low volume home use, crap for PCBs.

 

[duffy]

I use Scotchbrite. I also "pickle" the board in a dilute solution of ferric chloride - this mainly verifies that I've done a good job cleaning it.

Could be something with the temperature, but that board is smoking hot coming out of the fuser. After looking at that site you posted, my guess is Brother has f-dup the toner mix somehow and I'm not going to get good results until I switch printers.

 

[House0Fwax]

I also "pickle" the board in a dilute solution of ferric chloride

That doesn't sound like a good idea. How 'dilute' ?

After sanding the board with fine grade sandpaper, I just use some lighter fluid on a tissue to ensure no grease. Works well.

 

[Rolf]

The toner doesn't stick. It flakes off in an odd way during the etching process, under a magnifying glass you can see the traces split and start to curl lengthwise.

Thanks for the link. My printer's not listed, but others from this same manufacturer are.

I newer had any problem with using an iron with P-N-P; after I got my iron down to the correct temperature. I got bubbles and pealing when it was used with to hot a temp. I use an egg timer for my three minutes but some times I cheat and quit after 2.5 min with no ill effects. Make sure you use a section of newspaper underneath for heat retention and a piece of copy paper on top to make the iron glide smoothly.

Looking at the picture I am most concerned about the lower right, it looks almost like a corrugated cardboard pattern, newer seen anything like it. What is it? Was your PCB shiny? It is very difficult taking a picture of the shiny board yours looks a little dull. (but it is hard to judge from a picture)

As far as the cleaning; the easiest I have found is to use a copper / silver cleaning agent, they removes all oxidation quickly and easily. When it is shiny it is clean. Have had no problems with rinsing in tap water and drying with a paper towel.

Make sure the edges are burnished! The tiny ridge resulting from the cutting of the PCB is enough to prevent the iron from making good contact. This I suspect is causing many to go to the expense of buying and using a laminator that has in all probability rubber rollers.

 

[3v0]

Harvey.

Some place said not to use steel wool because of rust. But maybe that is not a problem with you procedure.

Prior to using Pulsar I was jumping through hoops to get a nice clean PCB too. The Pulsar site recomended schotchbright and dawn. I tried it and it works. I have not tried it with P&P or mystery paper but I do not see where the paper would be related.

EDIT: It may seem I am a bit taken with Pulsar's system. The owner/inventor has put a lot of time into making it work. He is still working on improving it. When you buy his paper you are also buying his support in that you can phone or email him for help. That is quite a bargin. He does a lot of neat stuff. Vist the site if you have not done so.

Even if the chinese came out with equivlent paper for ten cents a sheet I would buy from Pulsar to support the ongoing research they/he do/does.

3v0

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

I can verify that the new Brother line of printers does not work good at all.
Sometimes the transfer wont come out at all but maybe 10 percent of the
lines! That means 90 percent of the drawing doesnt get transferred.
Take this advice and DONT get a new Brother printer if you intend to do
toner transfer.
I had to give up entirely with the Brother printer i have, but i have heard that
other brands of replacement toner transfer cartridges work better. I didnt
want to shell out another 40 bucks to find out so i got a new Samsung.

Dont get me wrong though, the Brother printer is really great for doing printouts
onto LASER paper, but dont ever expect it to work with toner transfer paper.

 

[duffy]

That doesn't sound like a good idea. How 'dilute' ?

Very. Mostly water. It's enough to get a reaction - turns the board pink, and quickly shows up grease or fingerprints. This was recommended back in the days of DIY photoresist application.