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wireless detonator

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manufaktura

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Hello everyone,

This is an art project of a friend of mine, in which he wants to blow up 20 small objects via wireless remote control. Each object has to be destroyed separately, i.e. the artist should have the option to choose which object to destroy (object 1, 5, 10, then 3, 7, 18...).

I have found instructions for remote detonators for fireworks, but all of them are wired. On the other hand, I've found how-tos to make a wireless detonator for a single object (using RF car remote controls).

I would appreciate any help!
 
Wired detonators are preferred, as they give the most protection from false triggering from stray signals. Guess you are referring to RF, consider all the signals going on around you. Is it really worth the risk? It's fine for the suicide bombers in Iraq, as they are going to die in a few minutes anyway, but for most sane people the risk is unacceptable. About the same as providing construction details publicly over the internet. Everything posted in these forums, is simple and easy to find with a search engine (Google), and can be read by anyone whether they join or not (wonder if the administrator can fix that...). Anyway, this topic usually doesn't produce much details, unless it done through private messages. I think the majority of members feel the same way, it's just not a safe topic to discuss. I don't think it's overly complicated, depending on how much safety you want to program into it. Aside from terrorist, which probably have all the info they need anyway, but kids love explosives, and take shortcuts to save money. Another reason why this should be a banned topic.

I'm only a member, and this is just my views on something that's just begging to cause some grief, perhaps not for you, but there are a lot of people reading this site.
 
Well, you can be expecting a visit from Homeland Security any minute now. :)

In seriousness, I really, really doubt you want to do anything harmful with this. But hopefully you will understand that folks may be reluctant to post explicit instructions for a project like this.

I'll give you this hint though: don't go trying to design your own RF transmitter/receiver pair for the task. RF work is tricky even if you know what you're doing, and this is *not* the time to have a stray harmonic setting something off when you don't want it to. You'd also want to use some kind of coding to make damn sure that there is no way interference from any other sources could set it off--i.e. some soccer mom with a family-band radio or something. Look at sites like https://www.sparkfun.com and check out the RF modules available. They've done the hard work; all you need to do is program and hook up a uC at each end to handle the input and output.

What kind of electronics experience do you have? Are you cool with programming a PIC or AVR or similar? Good with a soldering iron, I take it? What kind of budget do you have? What kind of time frame do you need the thing in?


Torben
 
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yngndrw said:
Why not just use a wired system ?

Because it's supposed to be an exhibition, the objects are part of an art installation and the infrastructure shouldn't be visible to the audience.
 
HarveyH42 said:
Wired detonators are preferred, as they give the most protection from false triggering from stray signals. Guess you are referring to RF, consider all the signals going on around you. Is it really worth the risk? It's fine for the suicide bombers in Iraq, as they are going to die in a few minutes anyway, but for most sane people the risk is unacceptable. About the same as providing construction details publicly over the internet.

The safety concern is important issue here. I hoped that I won't have to prove in any way that this isn't supposed to be a "terrorist" topic. I suppose that someone who wants to do something like that can find enough information to do it anyways. I hope that this topic won't go that way.
 
manufaktura said:
The safety concern is important issue here. I hoped that I won't have to prove in any way that this isn't supposed to be a "terrorist" topic. I suppose that someone who wants to do something like that can find enough information to do it anyways. I hope that this topic won't go that way.

No, I don't think you need to prove anything. At any rate, how would you propose to? But personally, in good conscience, I (and I suspect many others) wouldn't want to post too much information on how to do it here. While the information needed to build a simple terrorist rig is certainly already out there, nobody really wants to bring that kind of potential liability issue to this board.

Personal email would probably be somewhat better. Myself, I think you should hire a professional pyrotechnician, if for no other reason than safety. (And yeah, I've been involved with art projects so I know you probably don't have money coming out your ears, but still. . .)


Torben
 
Torben said:
What kind of electronics experience do you have? Are you cool with programming a PIC or AVR or similar? Good with a soldering iron, I take it? What kind of budget do you have? What kind of time frame do you need the thing in?

I supposed that this is a relatively simple thing to construct to someone who has an experience. I have basic electronics experience, gained through my university courses, i have a M.Sc. in electrical engineering, but have never programmed uC. The time frame is one month.

I understand the problem regarding RF accidental start, but I suppose that is something that can be overriden.

To repeat it once again, the safety issue is really important and the whole art project is somehow related to the atmosphere caused by terrorist attacks.

Thanks to everyone
 
Torben, thanks. If no one wants to participate in something that could be misused, I would be thankful if anyone can give me some guides for my research through private messages.

How complicated do you think this project is? How much time would experienced person need to do it? I suppose this is something I can understand and finish for the time frame given.
 
**Looking over shoulder for men in black**** I would definitely make sure your sending encoded data over that wireless link:) This way you can be sure to include enough security to prevent the obvious hijacking and false triggers.

Go luck!
-BaC

manufaktura said:
I supposed that this is a relatively simple thing to construct to someone who has an experience. I have basic electronics experience, gained through my university courses, i have a M.Sc. in electrical engineering, but have never programmed uC. The time frame is one month.

I understand the problem regarding RF accidental start, but I suppose that is something that can be overriden.

To repeat it once again, the safety issue is really important and the whole art project is somehow related to the atmosphere caused by terrorist attacks.

Thanks to everyone
 
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manufaktura said:
The safety concern is important issue here. I hoped that I won't have to prove in any way that this isn't supposed to be a "terrorist" topic. I suppose that someone who wants to do something like that can find enough information to do it anyways. I hope that this topic won't go that way.

I'm sorry, guess I didn't word it well. Didn't mean to imply you had any other intentions, then what you posted. We get a similar request every few months, and I do understand the interest in such a project. Nobody wants to be anywhere near the explosives, and running wires and such, for an event that will last but a second, seems like a lot of work. The main point I wanted to make was that these posts are available to the entire internet, through search engines. We have no control over who sees the information or how it may be used. The terrorists hide in the shadows, this is their greatest weapon. We've had kids looking for detonators for homemade 'fireworks', wouldn't want some 12 year old kid using something like this in my neighborhood. A child can be very persistent, and plenty of time to keep searching until finds what he's looking for on the internet.

Again I'm sorry. I didn't mean any offense to you. It's not an uncommon request, use this forum's search, and you should see quite a few. They all pretty much get the same response.

You took the time to register here, that's good enough for me. Never any need to prove anything.
 
best thing i can think of is buy a couple of those really old and cheap mobiles like $15 each know and solder two wires from the motors inside. When you call the phone it causes the motor to spin which causes the vibrations or in this case BOOOOOOM!!!!!!!! hope this helped
ask me if you have any problems
 
And a wrong number, or telemarketer call would do what?...:eek:

Ken
 
spitso said:
best thing i can think of is buy a couple of those really old and cheap mobiles like $15 each know and solder two wires from the motors inside. When you call the phone it causes the motor to spin which causes the vibrations or in this case BOOOOOOM!!!!!!!! hope this helped
ask me if you have any problems

erm, no. :) Switching remotely is easy. Switching remotely *safely* is not nearly as easy. The above is not even close to safe enough.


Torben
 
manufaktura said:
Hello everyone,

This is an art project of a friend of mine, in which he wants to blow up 20 small objects via wireless remote control. Each object has to be destroyed separately, i.e. the artist should have the option to choose which object to destroy (object 1, 5, 10, then 3, 7, 18...).

I have found instructions for remote detonators for fireworks, but all of them are wired. On the other hand, I've found how-tos to make a wireless detonator for a single object (using RF car remote controls).

I would appreciate any help!


Probably better off with a direct line of sight technology, like laser / receiver pairs or something. Make certain whatever you use is doubly protected against failures and false triggering though.
In my opinion, wires and two switches per circuit are the only safe option.

I wouldn't go around asking about Det******s of any sort in today's climate, it may well bring about the attention of those that know exactly how they work...if you know what I mean, choose your words wisely...

rgds
 
manufaktura said:
Hello everyone,

This is an art project of a friend of mine, in which he wants to blow up 20 small objects via wireless remote control. Each object has to be destroyed separately, i.e. the artist should have the option to choose which object to destroy (object 1, 5, 10, then 3, 7, 18...).

I have found instructions for remote detonators for fireworks, but all of them are wired. On the other hand, I've found how-tos to make a wireless detonator for a single object (using RF car remote controls).

I would appreciate any help!

Not sure you should expect help on this topic... But here is a piccy of a wireless "initiator" that I threw together in 2004... As it stands, it has 4 mosfet channels, but the circuit is easily modifiable to give 16 unique "channels"... The link is encoded, and the receiver has to be matched to the transmitter in order to function...
 

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KMoffett said:
And a wrong number, or telemarketer call would do what?...:eek:

Ken

You could of course put your mobile number in the friends list and set it to vibrate only if the caller is in this list.

Mike.
 
Also, another thing that should be considered is the "power-up spike". A rocketry buddy of mine was powering on the ignition receiver when the igniter went off. Luckily for him, it wasn't installed in the motor yet but it did leave a nasty burn in his leg. Always build your system with multiple redundancies such as a timer delay or a second wireless interlock.
 
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