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WIFI networking questions

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HarveyH42

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The town I live in, installed free WIFI internet access a few years back. It covers the entire city. I finally got around to hooking up the Vista computer I bought about a month ago, which seems to be working fine, but keeps begging me for an internet connection for updates.

I haven't had any interest or need of networking, so never bothered to learn. Now, I'm faced with a need, and there seems to be a lot of choices, and not real sure about what I need.

First, to access the city's wireless network, I need an adapter card. I would also like to be able to transfer files from my XP computer, over to the VISTA, share the printers and scanner.

Could really use some tips on which companies are best, and which to avoid. Also need to know the minimal amount of equipment I'll need to purchase. Eventually the XP will most likely be retired, but it works, and is stable, and has about 40 gig of crap, which would take a long time to back up on CDs...

Anyway, for the wireless adapter, I'm thinking I should find something on a cable, since I'll need to be able to place the antenna several yards away from the computer. My house is concrete block, windows covered with metal screen. My computer desk is all metal, the desktop computer, actually sits on a metal shelf underneath. Will look around for the city's antennae when I walk my dog, remember one at the end of the block I live on.

The confusing part is all the terms, and not knowing which hardware is actually needed. Both computers have ethernet adapters built in, Firewire ports. Both Hp Pavilion. Not sure if this is of any use with the WIFI, or if I need a seperate adapter all together. Then, there are routers, access points, boosters and bridges... And several combinations.

Will probably get this all sorted out eventually, but figured there are probably a few people who know this stuff here.
 
You should be able to get a kit. Office Depot has one with everything you need to set up a wireless home network with instructions. I haven't tried it yet but they are out there.

As far as a service I don't know what's the best but I know that Comcast was recently being sued for sensoring it's internet access, so I would avoid them even though they boast of being the best and I think they are the biggest.
 
You should be able to get a kit. Office Depot has one with everything you need to set up a wireless home network with instructions. I haven't tried it yet but they are out there.

As far as a service I don't know what's the best but I know that Comcast was recently being sued for sensoring it's internet access, so I would avoid them even though they boast of being the best and I think they are the biggest.

Thanks for the office store tip, hadn't thought of that (don't work in an office...).

The internet service is provided by the city, free of charge, but they are very vague about what equipment is needed. Not too concerned about censorship, its free like this forum, they can do as they please. Little concerned about snooping and marketing data, but figure mostly to use it for the giga bytes of Windows Vista updates and fixes. I don't have enough confidence in security to put personal and financial information on the WIFI connection, or even on the Vista computer...
 
Thanks for the office store tip, hadn't thought of that (don't work in an office...).

The internet service is provided by the city, free of charge, but they are very vague about what equipment is needed. Not too concerned about censorship, its free like this forum, they can do as they please. Little concerned about snooping and marketing data, but figure mostly to use it for the giga bytes of Windows Vista updates and fixes. I don't have enough confidence in security to put personal and financial information on the WIFI connection, or even on the Vista computer...

Yeah I thought that was free. You know what? I got my updates turned off this time. I think I don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. After years of that crap I have my computers just run slower and slower and slower. Nah, my Vista works good enough that I don't want to down load so much crap that I'm not concerned with. Really.
 
Much faster and easier.

Yeah I thought that was free. You know what? I got my updates turned off this time. I think I don't want to go down that rabbit hole again. After years of that crap I have my computers just run slower and slower and slower. Nah, my Vista works good enough that I don't want to down load so much crap that I'm not concerned with. Really.

Avoid it all, go with Linux maybe Ubuntu.

kv
 
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Why do you not get a wifi router.
These have the wifi service to get onto your city's WAN, then also 4 rj45 network ports, you can connect your PC's to that via cable to share your files, so your internal network sits behind the router's firewall. RJ45 also allow you to have your router a bit further away from the PC's, and the small omni-directional antenna can be unscrewed to connect to a high gain antenna of some sort.
The router will manage the settings for getting onto the city's wifi network, so even if one PC is off, the other can have access to the net.
Most routers also have a WAN port, so if some quicker access service comes along, you have that spare WAN port to jump on that.

I'm using ZyXel for all my wifi stuff, and have used others, but find ZyXel to be rather used friendly. Security is also really good.

Just a thought

If you do not know a hell of a lot about Linux, I would stay clear initially, a lot of people have complained about getting wifi going properly, and yes, I know ten thousand people will tell me that's not true, but there are ten thousand more stating otherwise.

P.S. Good luck with that Vista box, I've heard of some irritating knacks regarding it and wifi also.
 
Why do you not get a wifi router.
These have the wifi service to get onto your city's WAN, then also 4 rj45 network ports, you can connect your PC's to that via cable to share your files, so your internal network sits behind the router's firewall. RJ45 also allow you to have your router a bit further away from the PC's, and the small omni-directional antenna can be unscrewed to connect to a high gain antenna of some sort.
The router will manage the settings for getting onto the city's wifi network, so even if one PC is off, the other can have access to the net.
Most routers also have a WAN port, so if some quicker access service comes along, you have that spare WAN port to jump on that.

I'm using ZyXel for all my wifi stuff, and have used others, but find ZyXel to be rather used friendly. Security is also really good.

Just a thought

If you do not know a hell of a lot about Linux, I would stay clear initially, a lot of people have complained about getting wifi going properly, and yes, I know ten thousand people will tell me that's not true, but there are ten thousand more stating otherwise.

P.S. Good luck with that Vista box, I've heard of some irritating knacks regarding it and wifi also.

Thank you. You are right about the router, I started looking into that last night (late), and figured that was more what I needed, than a basic adapter. Started shopping online, but wasn't impressed with the reviews in the affordable range. Will take a look at ZyXel, sounds perfect.

I hate Windows, but know that the software I buy, will work. I don't believe the alternative operating systems are 100% compatible, nor will they offer the software I wish to use. I've had my problems with Windows, but expect switching would just be a new batch of thing to get figured out and settled in.

Hopefully, somebody locally will have a router in stock, and I'll be get it going quickly.
 
*sigh* Free WiFi...if only

In SA we have a few "hotspots" where they say you can access "free" internet. But once you connect, via a laptop or moblile, you need to subscribe to an ISP (Internet service provider) first to be able to access it.
#$#(*@#)($ money grabbers
 
Something like that.

And if you look at our speed ratings compared to the rest of the world, thread somewhere in ****-chat section, You'll find we are far behind the major countries, but at least in front of some third world countries.

Oops, I forgot, we are third world.
Maybe fourth soon.:D
 
I bought a Linksys WRT54GS router yesterday, and couldn't get it to work on either computer. Couldn't even get the two computers to talk to each other. Might not be the right router, or just a bad one (kind of cheap plastic case, antennae same cheap plastic, wonder if there is even any wire in them...). Picked it up to move it, and one side felt very warm, almost hot. Not a good thing for cheap plastic. Haven't been to the website yet, but will before return this POS.
It keeps looking for a DSL/Cable modem, wondering if that has anything to do with it. The two hard wired computers should still be able to talk without internet.
 
I'm not familiar with linksys, but double check your settings on it.
Some of these routers can be hellish to set up.
I struggled the first time around too, but I had the router connected to my old PC, could not get the wifi nic to successfully connect.
I then moved the router to my newer PC and ignored the old one for a while, but kept playing with what I had to do in the back of my head. One day when I felt the urge, I installed the wifi nic into the older PC, and literally within minutes I had it on the internet.
The security settings and how you handle your dhcp is quite important.

The ZyXel barely generates any heat, so I would also suspect yours to be of low quality, or if it's that bad, maybe it's a dud, so take it back for a start and demand a new one stating that it gets so hot you can almost fry an egg on it, or something like that.

Good luck further
 
Well, looks like I'm stuck with this one. My dog shredded the packaging while I was out mowing the lawn. He's got a real attitude problem when I shut him the house, and no sense when I'm working with power tool...

I still don't believe it's receiving the city's signal, but I did manage to get the Vista computer to talk to the router, which gave me access to all kinds of settings to mess with.
No such luck on the XP yet, but at least I know it's not a dead router.

I think the problem is that this model was intended to use with a cable modem, which I don't have or need, since I'm trying to access a wireless network. Lot of things to learn, since this isn't a common application, pretty sure I have to figure it out. Most likely its security issues. I'm a little reluctant to mess with them too much, either lock myself out entirely, or leave it wide open for the neighbors to enjoy...
 
If you want to continue to use the wireless internet service, what you need is an ethernet wireless adaptor, (**broken link removed** or similar) and you plug the WAN port of your ethernet router into that.

That is how I got broadband for about 18 months until ADSL arrived.

You need two separate items. The ethernet wireless adaptor "receives" the wireless internet service, and passes it on down the ethernet cable, but only to one item.

The router is that one item. It then splits up the internet service so that all your computers and printers can see the internet, and each other, but it also keeps your internal traffic away from the public wireless service. That also improves speed.

In fact, the public wireless service is probably configured so that if you do connect two computers to it, then the two computers would not be able to see each other.

You can use a wireless router so that both wired and wireless devices can be connected to it.

If you want to put the aerial that receives the public wireless service outside or high up, do not put a long aerial cable on the ethernet wireless adaptor. It is far better to mount that remotely and have a long ethernet cable. The signal losses down aerial cables at WiFi frequencies can be as much as 5 dB per metre so you will rapidly run out of signal. You can run 100 m of ethernet cable with no problems.

You can connect the ethernet wireless adaptor directly into a computer's ethernet port if you want, to check that bit.

Also you should be able to get the computers to see the router, either wired or wireless, whether or not the router is connected to anything on its WAN port. For the computers to see each other, they all need to be on the same workgroup.

The Linksys WRT54GS should be OK for what you want but it is not enough on its own.
 
I was about to post this when DIVER300 posted, it basically says the same thing, but I’ll post anyway.

I think that you will need an Access Point / Bridge. Some routers have the ability to set themselves as an AP / Bridge but not all. Most are generally designed so that all the traffic to and from the internet is sent via the WAN port on the router, this is then routed in/out via the 4 LAN ports and the wireless connection to multiple computers / PDAs / games consoles etc. Traffic can stay inside the local network i.e. copying files from one PC to another or be routed out to the internet.

An AP in its simplest form takes a wireless signal (WIFI) and converts it to an Ethernet format, or vice versa. The AP will need to act as a client in your case.

I would suggest if your router does not have an AP mode, to purchase a separate AP / Bridge and connect it to the WAN port of your router. The AP will then interface with your cities WIFI network, and your router will distribute it around your home network.

I hope this all makes sense, forgive me if this post is badly formatted or doesn’t make sense, as it’s my first post ever on any forum.
 
No leftfield, your post is perfectly understandable, and it makes sense.

Harvey, it would seem you require an access point, additionally, and that will be plugged into the WAN port on your router.
I initially thought your router would be enough, but now I'm convinced otherwise as well.
Your PC's connect normally to the router via the RJ45 ports, or the wifi bit. So your internal network PC's can see each other and share files, etc. While the outside network is an entirely different entity.

So your router will still handle your network security, just set it up with a good strong password.

Good luck
 
Upload the data sheet for my router. Should have posted it earlier, only 97k PDF...

It states that it is an Access Point, but getting the feeling some of these terms might have multiple meanings. Besides the 4 RJ-45 ports, there is only one other market 'internet', but it also apears to be an RJ-45. Figure on exploring the settings and options some more, before running out and buying another piece of equipment (least until after the holiday). I need to get this XP machine talking to the router, then I should be able to get both computers on board. Not in a rush to get on the city's network, but that might be another problem. The nearest antenna I've spotted was at the far end of block. Pretty sure its more than 200 feet.

Anyway, on the Vista computer, I used Internet Explorer to access the router. Tried the same way with XP, but got nothing. Kind of wondering if this is what you use to access the other computer. Don't see how I could access files, or share the printers and such from IE. Is there another program I should be running instead?
 

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Hi Harvey, although the router you have has an AP, from what I can tell it doesn’t natively support AP client or bridge mode which is what you require. There are hacks available which may allow this via a firmware update, but I don’t have a WRT54GS so haven’t tried it and couldn’t say if this would be OK or not.

I looked for a suitable AP that would operate as an AP client / bridge, I found several, including this from DLINK DWL-2100AP it operates in 5 different modes.

However after thinking about what you say in your last post about the distance to the antenna, and the fact that it appears to be a city wide service. What the city maybe using is a WIMAX type service, which requires special receiving equipment, as it’s a different 802 standard. This type of network is starting to be used instead of providing a fixed line services to consumers such as cable or ADSL. Also WIFI only has 11 channels for use in the US, with a channel separation recommendation of 6 it would be difficult to make a city wide network from it.

I suggest you double check what type of service is being offered, WIFI is more suitable for providing free internet in airports, homes, shops and retail areas.
 
The attached PDF is from the Saint Cloud, Fla. website, not particularly informative tech-wise... The DLINK DWL-2100AP goes for about $100, almost bought it off the manufacturer's website. Going to look around local first.
 

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