When not to reply

[3v0]

It was pointed out that I was hanging out in chat and not posting.

Thinking I should do better I visited a few threads this morning.

In the first thread the op ask for a hyperterm like program for Vista. The first reply suggested he Google for it. There are many such programs and it would take some time to figure out which worked for the user.

In general if you are thinking about telling the user to google perhaps it is better to just move on. Perhaps another member can take the time to provide real help. Regardless of how simplistic the question is another member may be willing to help.

In the next thread a user was trying to interface a PIC with an accelerometer using II2. The first reply asked the OP if the sensor was II2 when he could have easily looked at the datasheet and seen that it was. In this case the original post did not provide enough info for anyone to provide decent help.

In general if you do not have the time to read the required datssheets or the previous posts perhaps you should not reply.

 

[MikeMl]

On the other hand, there are a lot of requests for help here where the OP obviously has not done even a modicum of homework, either by searching these forums or doing a wider search. This forum is supposed to be about learning, so teaching the OP how to FIND an existing solution is often more valuable than doing his/her homework for them.

 

[BrownOut]

Amen. I expect the OP to take the initiative to read the datasheet first, and then ask if there is something in there he doesn't understand.

 

[killivolt]

read the datasheet first, and then ask if there is something in there he doesn't understand.

That would mean practically everything in my next project.

 

[3v0]

On the other hand, there are a lot of requests for help here where the OP obviously has not done even a modicum of homework, either by searching these forums or doing a wider search. This forum is supposed to be about learning, so teaching the OP how to FIND an existing solution is often more valuable than doing his/her homework for them.

Yes there are lazy people but there are also who need our help for various reasons.

Check out the "google for it" posts from the past. I doubt you will find many where there is help about how to better search. In a few cases you will find Google for "this string".

Mostly telling people to google a snub.

 

[MikeMl]

Yes there are lazy people but there are also who need our help for various reasons.

Check out the "google for it" posts from the past. I doubt you will find many where there is help about how to better search. In a few cases you will find Google for "this string".

Mostly telling people to google a snub.

Sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree! When I see one of the cited posts, the first thing I do is Google it myself. If I immediately get tens of hits that are relevant to the OP's question, I won't bother rehashing it until after the OP comes back and asks a specific question!
If the question is easily answered by reading a DataSheet, I would rather teach the OP how to find a data sheet, let them study it, and then answer a detailed question...

 

[unclejed613]

i've found that there's a bit of an "art" to googling. you have to know what you're looking for, and be somewhat creative with the search terms you use. let's say i want to find out how to measure the output impedance of an audio amplifier. if i put in "impedance measurement" i get (and i'm using Dogpile, not google, but the principle is the same) 4 pages of links, only 10% of those hits are actually articles ABOUT measuring electrical impedance (the first 10 links are where to buy impedance analyzers or worse, where to buy "impedance measurements"), and only about 1/3 of those have anything to do with audio itself. now if i get more specific and search for "audio amplifier output impedance measurement", i get 3 pages, some results are of the same sales pitches, but the useable results are a lot closer to what i'm looking for (i didn't know you could buy audio output impedance. is that by the pound or the liter?). ok, let's get a little bit creative. i want a direct way to measure output impedance, so i enter "AC ohmmeter"...
again 3 pages of links, but i get some really good hits (even though the same sales pitch entries show up, i guess those never go away). the first really good one is :
wouldn't an AC ohmmeter be handy? - Blogs - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

the second really good one is:
An AC ohmmeter for electrode impedance measurements

and an interesting third one is:
ESR Testing

there are also some links for commercial equipment that performs this function:
Applent Technologies - AT520SE AC milliohm Meter

Micro-Ohmmeter. - LOM-510A Micro-Ohmmeter

and some articles about something with the same function, but not related to audio., still there may be some useful info there:

A LOG-RESPONSE 5-DECADE A-C OHMMETER,

and these are on the first page. telling somebody to "just go and google it" will get them lost in cyberspace. giving them some search terms would be helpful. if you think they should look for it on their own, at least give them useful search terms. it's more useful to open a browser tab, spend a few seconds running a search, and post a link or two for them to look at. if i think they need to look at the datasheet, i give them the link to Datasheet & Application Note Database, PDF, Circuits, Datasheets | Datasheet Archive. i can't post a link to the particular datasheet because of the fact that datasheetarchive download links all are "datasheet.pdf". if i think i can help answer their question, i'll browse the data sheet myself and post the relevant information from it.

 

[MikeMl]

Then we agree. I usually post something like "Goggle audio amplifier output impedance measurement", after Googling it myself to see if my search keywords get some relevant results.

 

[HarveyH42]

I think an important part of education, is to learn what resources are available, and how to use them. I've got a hunch that there a lot of people who are use to just asking a teacher, or the local know-it-all, and getting pretty much everything they ever needed. I've know plenty of people that seem thrilled to provide all the answers, guess it makes them feel superior or something. I learned how to teach myself at an early ages, as my interests weren't often in the curriculum, or might be, a few years down the road.

For something that could be answered by looking through a datasheet, I give a link to Datasheet catalog for integrated circuits, diodes, triacs, and other semiconductors, view , which I use often, and usually have what I'm looking for. Sometime I suggest searching, but only if I remember seeing a similar project, if it was something recent, I'll even look it up for them. I'll give links to online surplus stores, if I see something useful.

Now, I should probably not comment so much on posts, which are better, cheaper and quicker off the shelf, than anything somebody who needs to ask, is likely going to build from scratch. Then there are things that are dangerous (in the wrong hands), illegal (cellphone jammers, police lights), or just plainly a bad idea (torturing animals with noise).

 

[Sceadwian]

Yes there are lazy people but there are also who need our help for various reasons.

Check out the "google for it" posts from the past. I doubt you will find many where there is help about how to better search. In a few cases you will find Google for "this string".

Mostly telling people to google a snub.

Name one please.

 

[JimB]

It was pointed out that I was hanging out in chat and not posting.

Lurking is not such a bad thing. I read ETO several times a day (I have a lot of free time at the moment), if I find a subject which interests me, I will join in.

However, sometimes I have posted early on in threads which in my opinion have later turned silly and so although I may have something to contribute, I just cant be bothered with the pissing contest! (Can I say "pissing contest" on ETO?).

Sometimes I see requests from posters in the "third world", and just looking at what is written I think "just pass on by, you will be wasting your time", and I am often right.

As for "just Google it", there are many lazy people who will not put in the effort themselves, there may be concientous (spelling?) people who just cant get the correct words to find what they are looking for, and there may be people in not so enlightened countries who use the correct search words but the appropriate sites are blocked by "big brother".

JimB

 

[tcmtech]

I don't generally reply. I comment and let whomever take it for what they want from it.

Some times my comment goes nowhere. Other times it becomes a discussion of concepts and knowledge.

Other times (with some individuals and topics) it just becomes a "pissing contest" of futility.

 

[Sceadwian]

JimB, 3v0 isn't talking about lurking in the forum, there is an active chat here that he and a few others frequent.
His original comment is actually based on something I said as I logged off of said chat after arguing with Electronerdy (as I knew his name here) He's En0 now as far as I know. Me and EN have some serious beef in active chat for various reasons, and aside from Hayato the major users that say anything there say nothing here now.

 

[unclejed613]

. Then there are things that are dangerous (in the wrong hands), illegal (cellphone jammers, police lights), or just plainly a bad idea (torturing animals with noise).

for these i have a more humorous approach. i have a couple of "awards" i give out....
the Wile E Coyote Super Genius award https://www.electro-tech-online.com...ew-award-wile-e-coyote-supergenius-award.html

or the Marvin the Martian award https://www.electro-tech-online.com/blogs/unclejed613/95-marvin-martian-awards.html

of course which one depends on the subject matter

 

[crutschow]

i can't post a link to the particular datasheet because of the fact that datasheetarchive download links all are "datasheet.pdf"

You can usually right click on a pdf link and copy the link. I've done that often to paste a pdf link into my thread.

 

[unclejed613]

ok, i've had trouble with it in the past, but let's see...
**broken link removed**



..... ok, they must have fixed it with their new page format.... i'll have to remember that rather than trying to post the pdf itself...

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,
I would say that using Google can be tricky to get the 'answers' that you are looking for if you are not sure of what to search for.

If an OP appears to be unsure about the subject he is asking for help on, I do the same as MikeL, do a search for 'what I think' the OP is really asking about.

I would say most of the experienced 'helpers' can quickly recognise the keywords in an OP's text and then do a context search on Google and then post the link or best search string.

Regarding 3v0's time, I have worked with him on many occasions on the Chat-Line helping 'wannabees', its rewarding when you see the light come on in the 'askers' mind after a few minutes of chat dialogue.

IMHO 3v0, makes a positive contribution to these Forums and how he does is it is no one else's damn business.

 

[Torben]

hi,
I would say that using Google can be tricky to get the 'answers' that you are looking for if you are not sure of what to search for.

If an OP appears to be unsure about the subject he is asking for help on, I do the same as MikeL, do a search for 'what I think' the OP is really asking about.

I would say most of the experienced 'helpers' can quickly recognise the keywords in an OP's text and then do a context search on Google and then post the link or best search string.

Regarding 3v0's time, I have worked with him on many occasions on the Chat-Line helping 'wannabees', its rewarding when you see the light come on in the 'askers' mind after a few minutes of chat dialogue.

IMHO 3v0, makes a positive contribution to these Forums and how he does is it is no one else's damn business.

Hi Eric,

I couldn't agree more. Attacking how someone chooses to use their free time helping someone else serves no purpose, unless the "helper" is ignorant of the topic. 3v0 is not in my experience ignorant--he appears to be very patient and knowledgeable--so if you can learn from him, do so, and if you can't, read something else.


Regards,

Torben

 

[Hero999]

Rather than just saying Google it, I normally Google it myself and post a link to the searches.

If someone asks a question about a component which can be easily found on the datasheet, I tell them so and that the datasheet can be easily found using Google. I think getting people to find information out for themselves helps them more than spoon feeding them.

If no one replies at all then it's worse because it implies no one cares or is listening. I remember asking a question on another forum and was put off by the fact that no one replied, despite the forum being pretty active so I waited a couple of days before posting again, this time with more information but didn't get anywhere. If someone had replied with and said, the answer can be found by Googleing for X then I would have been happier for it.

Sometimes using Google can be hard, especially if you don't know what you're searching for or you don't know how so spell it. My spelling is often so bad that the spell checker both on Google and my word processor can't correct it.

 

[vne147]

I think the way new posters go about asking questions can be the result of laziness, ignorrance, and everything in between. I don't think there is one best thing to do all the time. I have also been on both sides of this discussion before. While I have never specifically posted "google it" before, I'm sure there were a few times when I furnished an equally unhelpful reply because I was annoyed with what I percieved as the OP's lack of initiative. On the other hand there have been times when I was bored or just in a helpful mood I guess and did everything for the OP up to an including sending them a schematic complete with a BOM.

I would much prefer to help someone learn how to do something as opposed to just giving them the solution (teach a man to fish...) but sometimes it's just so tempting to give them then answer instead of taking the time to teach them everything they'd need to know to make it themselves. For example, something as simple as an astable 555 would be a chore trying to explain to someone who has never seen an IC before and has no clue what Ohm's law is. I know there are tons of tutorials out there for that, it's just an example.

Sometimes what looks like a lack of effort in asking a question is really just a language barrier. I have seen people reply to threads before criticizing the spelling and grammar of someone who obviously doesn't speak English very well. I'll usually be a little more generous in my responses to questions like that because I'd like to give the person the benifit of the doubt and just assume that they didn't have the correct words to ask the question properly.

On the flip side, it's kind of annoying when you do try to help someone and they don't even attempt to return the effort that you've given. Or don't even post a thank you for a good reply. I know we're all in cyber space here but there are still other people at the ends of the computers and a little common courtesy goes a long way.

There was a thread from a week or so ago that started with:

Its related about sensor

Hello everyone. Is there any sensor can gets that works as follows,if the sensor find any obstacles between IF LEDs and receiver(Sensor) the sensor will give accurately 5V accoss its terminal and when sensor finds no obstacles then it will give O across its terminal or vice-versa.
​

Now, English is obviously not this person's first language (at least I hope not). Myself and a few others tried to interpret what he was asking. I posted him a link to a photo-interrupter and asked him if that's what he was referring to. Other people tried to help also. There were maybe 5 questions asked by different people. The OP writes back 2 days later and only answers one of them with a single sentence and doesn't even acknowledge the help everyone else was trying to provide. Needless to say no one has of yet continued efforts to help him solve his problem.

Frustrating!!!

Ok, my rant it over for now.