What is the best photo paper in uk for pcb transfer?

[olly_k]

I read somewhere that photo paper these days is plastic based and so no good for pcb transfer so what do UK folk use apart from the hideously expensive p&p?

I have tried junk mail paper and managed to get one fairly good etched scrap board but didn't have any more of that paper left. Other attempts ended up with unsuccessful transfers, crumpled sheets, paper jams or even bubbled (getting too hot?) paper.

Also do you go for glossy or matte?

 

[3lectrokid]

i have found thickish glossy magazine paper is the best for me. i got it from my fathers work electrical magazine but i cant remember which one

 

[Hero999]

Yes, I agree, use magazine paper such as the type used for the Radio Times, Max Power etc.

 

[olly_k]

ok I will give the RT a go. It doesn't help having a brother printer from what I have read. However, as I have successfully etched a small section I think it is just down to correct paper choice and technique now.

I will report back

 

[HarveyH42]

I know you are looking to save money, but a hot laminator is a very good investment. Much quicker and consistent than using a clothes iron. I made the switch, same time I started using Pulsar paper, and have only experimented a few times with other papers a few times since. A laminator takes away the guess work you have with the iron, where you have temperature, pressure, and time to deal with. It's more a matter of preference I suppose, some people are thrilled with the skills of using a clothes iron. I just want the board, with minimal hassles, don't even like hand drilling the holes. If I saw a cheap CNC drilling machine, I buy it.

Is some tips for using an iron, from the Pulsar site. They don't sell overseas, but might help you get better results. They want you to have good excellent results, and spent a lot of time working to make it easy. There are a lot of sites you can get a how-to, but this one is great.

 

[olly_k]

Thanks Harvey I have actually got a lamina tor that me mum bought me! I guess one of the drums is sprung so no damage will occur..

How often do you put the board through?

I know you are looking to save money, but a hot laminator is a very good investment. Much quicker and consistent than using a clothes iron. I made the switch, same time I started using Pulsar paper, and have only experimented a few times with other papers a few times since. A laminator takes away the guess work you have with the iron, where you have temperature, pressure, and time to deal with. It's more a matter of preference I suppose, some people are thrilled with the skills of using a clothes iron. I just want the board, with minimal hassles, don't even like hand drilling the holes. If I saw a cheap CNC drilling machine, I buy it.

Is some tips for using an iron, from the Pulsar site. They don't sell overseas, but might help you get better results. They want you to have good excellent results, and spent a lot of time working to make it easy. There are a lot of sites you can get a how-to, but this one is great.

 

[olly_k]

Quick update I have had one acceptable result except for the fact that I didn't match both sides of the pcb quite accurately enough and being 3a.m. in the morning common sense left me, so I decided to etch the board anyway lol. This was with paper from an old maplin magazine of all things which seemed to work best for me. There was a bit of pitting and one or two broken tracks, but considering how thin the tracks are everything worked out pretty well!
Ordered a new board and being sent a scrap piece of p&p to try as I have found a slightly cheaper source now. Obviously my printer is not up to the usual standard, but can't be written off yet either! Oh I tried the laminator I think it should be ok as long as I let it heat a good while. Much less hassle than the iron!

Just out of interest, I found a youtube video ( watch?v=DpQ0CcCT9uI ) showing how to tin a pcb with plumbers solder paste - looks great, but I haven't seen this method used in anything post 1960's I assume down to cost? Has anyone here tried this method?

 

[Hero999]

Good, I'm glad it worked.

Please post some pictures.

 

[olly_k]

Here is a piccy...

you can see one break, also you can see where I drilled through and how far out I was. I really have to get things spot on for the through board connections as these copper pads are tiny!

Anyway I will report back when I recieve the p&p

 

[Hero999]

Very good.

It's weird that the only break isn't in the thinnest track and seems to be that it's down to the printer rather than the toner transfer process.

 

[olly_k]

Yes the printer came from the local tip and the original brother drum and toner was s/h (but full) off ebay. There was a slight mark on the drum, cleaned off whatever it was very carefully (under subdued light) and I guess this is as good as I can expect as a result!

However, my main problem hasn't been the printing (generally deep black as you would expect) but when removing the final fluffy remnants of paper I end up rubbing tiny amounts of toner off. I guess this is why brother printers are not very good for this sort of thing?

I just hope P&P will be more forgiving when releasing and further cleaning up!

 

[Hero999]

I've had problems with the fluffy paper but most of it comes off without removing the toner.

I don't bother removing all of it anyway. I just make just that it's removed from places which would short between different traces - using a pin normally helps.

The remaining bits of fluf normally come off when etching and even if some remains it doesn't always prevent it from etching.

 

[HarveyH42]

Thanks Harvey I have actually got a lamina tor that me mum bought me! I guess one of the drums is sprung so no damage will occur..

How often do you put the board through?

I run it through twice, once each side. But should also mention that I use very thin PCB material, cuts easy in a paper-cutter. Mention earlier just how lazy I am, concerning the production process... I don't often use large or heavy parts, or high voltages or current (hate getting shocked), so thin board works great, drills quick and easy as well.

When I first started with the laminator, I ran the boards through four times, rotating it 90 degrees each pass, but later tried 2, and didn't see any difference. I use the Pulsar paper, not sure if it's the same as P-N-P.

Have you tried any inkjet transparency plastic? It didn't melt or deform in my Laserjet, and released the toner clean, except for an edge trace. Haven't tried it again (only a few sheets left), but think if I have trouble getting more Pulsar paper, that would be my first choice as an alternative.

 

[olly_k]

ok folks you have given me some ideas here thanks. TBH I am taking a break until pcb and transfer paper arrives lol I have printed so many times and scrubbed so many failed transfers any sane person would have given up long ago but now I have come so close I am more determined, but a little more relaxed about it all!
The new board I ordered is not fibreglass but apparently not the cheapo stuff either and is only 1mm thick so it may somehow react differently. We will see.

 

[HarveyH42]

Acetone removes tone so easy. It actually melts the plastic, and it wipes away. Something you'll want to do outdoors though. I think scrubbing and cleaning, were among the factors that make buying my paper more attractive. Still haven't found a lazy-way to prepare and clean the copper, before the transfer. But it's sort of a key to success or failure. I was a little clumsy with fingerprints for a while, but leave more of an edge border, where I had the most problems.

 

[olly_k]

Yes I have acetone thanks Harvey and I have also been preparing my boards very well. Normally scrubbing with polishing block then cleaning with isotropy. I use cotton gloves to handle the board and leave spare board for handling purposes, so I think I am doing everything ok.

 

[MrDEB]

An easy method to CLEAN your copper before transfering is to use either a green scotch brite pad or 400 wet/dry sandpaper. Been using #0000 steel wool on my last few boards and it works really nice.
as for paper, I use the pulsar paper but here is a link to an article using Staples photo paper.
**broken link removed**
good luck

 

[olly_k]

Just an update I received some sample p&p off a guy on ebay to test and trying various methods atm. Results are not great and have not matched the previous example using the maplin magazine method lol!
Interestingly the last print the plastic got slightly distorted showing how hot this printer gets (lots of mags bubble in heavy picture areas!) so maybe this ink needs consistently higher temps...

I really want to get the p&p to work but this must be the dreaded Brother ink issue - although what sticks can be good just getting overall consistency right which is near impossible!

Damn PCBs I would go for stripboard despite the complexity but I suspect it would be too noisy for this design...?

 

[Hero999]

Are you sure it's not fake?

It wouldn't surprise me if it's not real P&P.

I've heard about people having similar problems with proprietary papers.

I don't know myself as I've never used any special paper: magazine paper works fine for me. In my opinion proprietary papers such as P&P and Pulsar are a rip-off.

 

[edeca]

If you decide you'd like to try Pulsar ProFX paper you can buy it in the UK on a number of sites. One example is Databrite Electronics (no personal experience, so not a recommendation).

I have some and I could send you a small sample for free if you'd like. I didn't particularly get on with it and I don't mind waiting a few weeks for boards to arrive, so I just order them in now. I did have success with a few small boards though.

Drop me a PM if you'd like some.