# Water Electrolizer

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#### Lann

##### New Member
Hello everyone,

My name is Lann.

On the www.Keelynet.com website is the electronic schematic ( as well as associated schematics & diagrams ) for the control unit of a device which electrolizes water and uses the water "vapor" ( not steam ) as fuel in an internal combustion engine. Yup, water as fuel. Imagine the possibilities. :!:

The inventer of this system, Stanley Meyer, says the whole thing can be built and installed on your car with parts readily available from various retail outlets. No speciallized parts. In other words, most of us who are mechanically/electronically inclined would be able to do this.

I'm not very knowledgeable in the electronics area, so I am asking for anyone here to explore the information on this device and get back to me with your opinion. Is the theory sound? What do I need to know to be able to build the control unit? Is anyone here willing to give this a try?

The page the device is on is:

Hopefully, together we can make this work.

Lann.

#### stevez

##### Active Member
Water can be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen with the flow of electric current - something many of us have done in science class. An amount of energy (electricity) is used in the process.

When hydrogen and oyygen combine while burning, heat and water vapor are given off. The resulting energy can be put to work.

The problem in a scheme like this - if there were no losses, the energy that you'd put into making the hydrogen/oxygen (from water) is equal to the energy that would result from burning it. I took a quick look at the site and it looks like a battery is the source of the energy to make the hydrogen and oxygen. The only advantage might be that the gases can be produced continuously and stored then burned at a high rate for a short period to release lots of energy. In the end you are still limited to the capacity of the battery.

If the gases could be combined to make something other than water, that releases more energy than it took to make, then it might be an improvement however, you'd have to deal with the resulting substance(s) which would no longer be water.

#### bogdanfirst

##### New Member
whis reaction between H2 and O2 produces a lot of heat, and it is quite exposive. i tried it.
yet there is a problem...you cannot create enrgy out of nothing...so you cannot get more energy by combining the gases than you use to divide water into those 2 elements. this should mean that the efficency if > than 100%...so not that possible. if it would be possible, why not produce electricity from combining O2 and H2 and then use some of that electricity to split them again???? this would mean a renewable power source.
i know that there should be a way to use the E-mc^2 ecuation.
just imagine how much energy you cand get out of 1 gram of water.
yet there are no ways of making this....turn matter into energy.

by the way......seen those laprops that run on H2 cells???? prety cool.

#### David M

##### New Member
In the 19th century, the gasoline portion of the refining process, was first considered to be a 'waste' product of extracting the purified crude oil. Later on, it was discovered that it could be sold as fuel, instead of just dumping it back in the hole as had been the tradition.

The point is gas is extracted from crude, at whatever cost, why not water into it's components H2 and oxygen and burned off.

And the comment about generating alot of heat, so does gas, however if you've ever played with rc nitro engine you have to balance the amount of fuel and choke the engine with gas so the engine runs cooler.

I think rather than just dismissing this it should be looked at more closely!

#### nettron1000

Interesting idea and one ive thought of before and im sure many others as well. Engines driven by hydrogen exacted from the electrolosys of water as already bin done sucessfully, but they are quite complex and very expensive. Last i heard they cost upwards of $100,000 each. Also hydrogen gas is very explosive and dangerous in large quantities. I tried a simple experiment once in highschool by filling a test tube with hydrogen gas from an electrolosys setup and and lighted it with a match, ( no i didnt blow up the lab! ) but it made quite a bang and blew the top off the test tube! so i can just imagine how much of an explosion a larger amount would make. #### Lann ##### New Member Water electrolizer, Water fuel cell Nettron1000 Thanks for returning a reply. nettron1000 said: Interesting idea and one ive thought of before and im sure many others as well. Engines driven by hydrogen exacted from the electrolosys of water as already bin done sucessfully, but they are quite complex and very expensive. Last i heard they cost upwards of$100,000 each.

Yes, I've seen that in my surfing/research. The hydrogen fuel cell is used to produce electrical energy to power the car. That is an electric source of power which is completely different from using hydrogen directly as fuel in the common internal combustion engine.

Also hydrogen gas is very explosive and dangerous in large quantities. I tried a simple experiment once in highschool by filling a test tube with hydrogen gas from an electrolosys setup and and lighted it with a match, ( no i didnt blow up the lab! ) but it made quite a bang and blew the top off the test tube! so i can just imagine how much of an explosion a larger amount would make.

Yes, and many people have sited the Hindenburg accident as proof that hydrogen is too dangerous to be used as fuel in the private auto. The point that no one realizes is that the only fuel based injuries in that crash were from the engine fuel used to produce forward motion. That fuel continued to burn slowly on the clothes and body of the people. Remember your experiment in school? The hydrogen burned extremely quickly leaving no residue.
This system produces only the amount required for immediate use. The rest is, of course, only water.

If you are still interested in this topic, please return to the article on the keelynet.com website, read again and then look into the reference sources at the end of the article.

Lann.

#### Lann

##### New Member
Water electrolizer, Water fuel cell

bogdanfirst said:
whis reaction between H2 and O2 produces a lot of heat, and it is quite exposive. i tried it.
Hello Bogdanfirst,

This is not a reaction between H2 and O2. You have the wrong idea.

You may be refering to the traditional way of electrolizing water; with high current and low voltage. This method uses only milli amps and thousands of volts.

Here's my understanding of how this electrolizer works.
By building and collapsing electric fields between two electrodes (in a short fast increasing series, and this series repeats at the same resonance as the natural electrical resonance of the water molecule), the water molecule is so "excited" that it literally throws itself apart. The resulting "gas" (ortho hydrogen) is used immediately in the engine. This is hydrogen "on demand" and the base fuel is harmless water.

This method uses very little electrical energy and doesn't create heat.

If you are still interested in this topic, please go again to the article on the site and read again. Also, read the reference material at the end of the article.

yet there is a problem...you cannot create enrgy out of nothing...so you cannot get more energy by combining the gases than you use to divide water into those 2 elements. this should mean that the efficency if > than 100%...so not that possible. if it would be possible, why not produce electricity from combining O2 and H2 and then use some of that electricity to split them again???? this would mean a renewable power source.
i know that there should be a way to use the E-mc^2 ecuation.
just imagine how much energy you cand get out of 1 gram of water.
yet there are no ways of making this....turn matter into energy.

by the way......seen those laprops that run on H2 cells???? prety cool.

#### Lann

##### New Member
bogdanfirst said:
whis reaction between H2 and O2 produces a lot of heat, and it is quite exposive. i tried it.
yet there is a problem...you cannot create enrgy out of nothing...so you cannot get more energy by combining the gases than you use to divide water into those 2 elements. this should mean that the efficency if > than 100%...so not that possible. if it would be possible, why not produce electricity from combining O2 and H2 and then use some of that electricity to split them again???? this would mean a renewable power source.
i know that there should be a way to use the E-mc^2 ecuation.
just imagine how much energy you cand get out of 1 gram of water.
yet there are no ways of making this....turn matter into energy.

by the way......seen those laprops that run on H2 cells???? prety cool.

No, I havn't seen the laptops that run on H2 cells. That sounds like a good idea. Do you think they could rig it so we just pour in a little water to supply the hydrogen needed for the cell? The oxygen could be released into the air, or possibly directly into the nose/mouth of the operator.

Lann.

#### bogdanfirst

##### New Member
nope here is how they work
you have a smalle hydrogen tank. the hydrogen combines with the oxigen from air and forms water. as 2 atoms combine, one of each gas, one electron is transferred. so a current flow is generated. but by separating the gases trough a special kind of gel, those electrons are forced to pas trough a longer path, the electronic circuit, so powering the laptop.
you still need the onygen.
why using water is not good.....
the quantity of energy you need to separate the water into O and H is larger than the quantity you get when combining the 2 elements back
so you have a smaller efficency than using the battery directly.

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