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washer motor forward reverse motion with pic

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abel2b

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Hi I´m new to electronics although, I have some knowledge,

lightning worked it´s magic on my washer and I can´t find replacement controller board. So I wan´t to buil a basic controller. I have been doing my homework around the internet on how to turn on/off a motor or valve, I can´t decide on how to do the the forward and reverse motion of the wash cycle.

the connector to the 220vac 50hz motor consist of 5 cable, 2 for high speed spin cycle and 3 three for forward reverse with one been commmon.

how I connect mains supply and start capacitor determines direction of spin.

Ok should I just use optoisolator to interface pic or picaxe to triacs and switch between them, with a delay as to give it time to come to a stop before going to the other direction or slowly pulse to brake the motor?

It´s the only way I can think off! Is there a more efficient cost effective way??

Also can you suggest a code for the wash cycle part (forward/reverse motion)

Thank you very much for your help!!!!
 
Before you go crazy on this, why not price a new controller board? Or is it the challenge your looking for:)

How bad is the board damaged? Most of the times it's the FET Transistors that burn out, plus the resistors. Why not try to repair it than trying to reinvent the wheel. Or is it that badly damaged?

-BaC
Give this site a go: Appliance Parts from RepairClinic.com - HomePage

Hi I´m new to electronics although, I have some knowledge,
**SNIP**
 
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Can't help thinking you'd be better off either repairing the damaged board or getting a replacement. But if you're going to build a DIY controller I'd start with looking at how the original board controls the motor.

For what it's worth when the heater element failed on my mates Ariston washing machine it blew the triac (bottom left in attached photo), which left one other triac on a heatsink and everything else was connected to the 6 relays.

The repair man left the faulty board so he gave it to me for bits:)
 

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A few years ago my neighbor's (cat dude) GE washer go bit by lightning. A new controller board was $157.00 +$17 shipping, more then half the cost of the machine. There was a PC mount transformer with no output, replaced it with something scrounged that looked similar with 12 volts output. Worked fine, not bad for a couple hours work. The board didn't seem to have much in the way of protection, so just gave the machine back to the neighbor, mine's old, but works fine, and no digital controls.

Would definitely look over the control board, it's likely something cheap and simple in the power section, a fuse would be too obvious (the one I fixed had none anyway). Only thing I know about 220 appliances, don't work on them plugged in, they hurt bad... Maybe you are more comfortable, or know how to work around it. The GE was 110, so I just had to find where the power entered the board, and test from there. Guess the transformers output from some relays on the board.

Still can't get over the poor design, or the high cost of replacement boards. Pay a man $75, spend half a day waiting for him to drop by and take a look and give you an estimate, which you figure to be almost as much as buying a new washer. Pay the repairman to fix it, and expect the same failure (hey, it's Florida, lightning strikes), or buy a different brand. Either way, the man gets his $75.
 
All too true..lol

-BaC

A few years ago my neighbor's (cat dude) GE washer go bit by lightning. A new controller board was $157.00 +$17 shipping, more then half the cost of the machine. There was a PC mount transformer with no output, replaced it with something scrounged that looked similar with 12 volts output. Worked fine, not bad for a couple hours work. The board didn't seem to have much in the way of protection, so just gave the machine back to the neighbor, mine's old, but works fine, and no digital controls.

Would definitely look over the control board, it's likely something cheap and simple in the power section, a fuse would be too obvious (the one I fixed had none anyway). Only thing I know about 220 appliances, don't work on them plugged in, they hurt bad... Maybe you are more comfortable, or know how to work around it. The GE was 110, so I just had to find where the power entered the board, and test from there. Guess the transformers output from some relays on the board.

Still can't get over the poor design, or the high cost of replacement boards. Pay a man $75, spend half a day waiting for him to drop by and take a look and give you an estimate, which you figure to be almost as much as buying a new washer. Pay the repairman to fix it, and expect the same failure (hey, it's Florida, lightning strikes), or buy a different brand. Either way, the man gets his $75.
 
There are many reason for making a controller:

1.lightning storm developed overnight and I wasn´t home, two days later we return home and my wife tried to do laundry and washer was dead.

2. I replaced shorted triacs,diodes,resistors but MCU is dead or faulty somehow.

3. I can not find replacement board in town, in a neighboring country (Paraguay) would cost me about $120 plus shipment and no Garantee that it works or that they send the part since I have to deposit or wire the money first. By the way a generic or basic washer cost at around $250

4. I like the chalenge since I have been looking for a project to start in microcontrollers

5.Since there is a lack for such boards and many broken washer why not sell some!!!!
 
This should be a good start:

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2008/05/cir-5-washing.pdf

Fully electronic control sequence washing m/c ... <--this one has tons of information, check this one out first!

What is the brand model number, maybe we can find the schematic for it, never know. Funny thing is calling the company, allot of the times they will give you the schematic or a link to it. There are lots of ways to control motor, H-Bridge, PWM, etc.

Good luck,
-BaC
 
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I Agree with "Harveyh" this board has no protection, supply for the mcu is through a single resistor from the mains supply, a resistor is the only thing between MCU output pin and triac gate parts list for this board is 4 triacs,12 resistor,5 leds,4 push buttons and a couple of capacitos thats it. generic yet very expensive, for other models board go up to $300
 
washer is a Drean concept model I or II board is similar to this: **broken link removed**

I must note that it doesn´t have to control speed of motor it not a precision critical machine my wife and many other housewives I talked to just want one button to start washing and that´s it I want to make a bit more universal.

thank you!!
 
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Haven't had to repair the washer yet but I did have an intermittent controller card going flacky on my central air furnace a year ago. Did a bunch of searching on the net and found out that there are many 'universal' controller cards made my 3rd party companies that replace lots of specific brands and models. It does take some time to make sure what you are buying is what your model will need. Anyway once I figured out what universal controller card I needed, I searched E-bay and found a seller listing at about half what the on line sellers wanted. Worked great, fit in orginal space/mounting holes. I think it cost me $40 with shipping.

Lefty
 
I rebuilt my washing machine controller from scratch using a PIC Microcontroller.

Even had it running via RS232 from the PC

Not a trivial task and in the end the missus bought a new machine as she couldn't work out how to program it lmao
 
No offense to anybody, I really apreciate your comments but we are deviating from the topic at hand, I am asking for your opinions on the best way to do the forward/reverse motion with a PIC and if posible sample code?

BaCaRdi: I checked out your links and the problem with these is that they use relays and so I need separate power supply. I was thinking triacs because they are cheaper and easier to replace. Thank you!!
 
We are not appreciated, they don't get all the hard "work" ok it's fun..lol Been their done that!

-BaC

I rebuilt my washing machine controller from scratch using a PIC Microcontroller.

Even had it running via RS232 from the PC

Not a trivial task and in the end the missus bought a new machine as she couldn't work out how to program it lmao
 
What sort of motor is it?

If it's a universial motor then you don't need a start capacitor.
 
If the forward and reverse if controlled by the 3 wires, you could wire them up to 2 relays one wire for the forward and one wired for the reverse, assuming its 1. forward 2. ground 3.reverse. Then run each relay thought a transistor and then to the microcontroller.
as for the code i can only program in basic so i dont think i can be of to much help.

Im not sure but shouldnt the machine be built to take the rapid switching from F to R, when my washer runs i dont hear a pause in between the 2, so you could just cycle thought the f and r with the microcontorller for the desired time and then have it move on to the next step
 
Hero999: I don´t think it´s universal because it won´t start without the cap unless I start spinning it with my hand, correct me if I´m wrong but I think it´s a 220vac 50hz induction motor.

jashuass: as I stated before I want to use triacs instead of relays, as for the braking fooling around with it, if I reverse the motor before it stops it tends to get hot I guess it´s generating somesort off field. as for the code maybe I can use in picbasic or at least get an idea on the timing part I just starting to learn to program pic it´s my first project.

Thank you!!
 
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I rebuilt my washing machine controller from scratch using a PIC Microcontroller.

Even had it running via RS232 from the PC

Not a trivial task and in the end the missus bought a new machine as she couldn't work out how to program it lmao

That's a very challenging task. Can you also tell us:

What types of motor the washer use? Is it induction or universal?

Is the motor speed controlled directly by the PIC via changing firing angle of TRIAC or by a DC voltage level (generated using PWM) from the PIC to an external universal motor controller IC like the TDA1085C?

The programming language, C or ASM?
 
That's a very challenging task. Can you also tell us:

What types of motor the washer use? Is it induction or universal?

Is the motor speed controlled directly by the PIC via changing firing angle of TRIAC or by a DC voltage level (generated using PWM) from the PIC to an external universal motor controller IC like the TDA1085C?

The programming language, C or ASM?

It was an induction motor (no brushes). It had two sets of windings - one for the low speed and the other for the high speed. It also had a tachometer on one end which I used in a feedback loop to control the firing angle of the Triac which in turn regulated the speed of the motor. I used a capacitor and a DPDT relay to reverse the motor direction.

At zero loads in the machine it was very accurate but when you've got 20kg of wet washing/water in there it became a bit more challenging to regulate the speed.

This was all quite a while ago though - seems like a distant memory.

Managed to win "geek of the week" from b3ta.com for it though lol.
 
Thanks.

I was forced into understanding the internal functioning of the washer when the recycling pump acted up and spraying water directly onto the motor controller PCB. It burnt a hole on the PCB but luckily I was able to repair it. See image.

The washer is a Zanussi made and use a mechanical timer to sequence through each steps of the washing process. It uses an universal motor for wash and spin and have a MCU for varying the firing angle and a custom IC to sense the current and motor speed. As usual, no information is available on these MCU and IC as they are custom made parts.

The mechanical timer is driven using an AC synchronous motor with only two wires, also controlled via a small TRIAC by the MCU. However, the designer is so clever that he can control the synchronous motor to rotate both ways as he wishes. Normally the sequencer will step forward a notch clockwise every two minutes if the timer motor is power continuously. However, by temporary reversing the motor rotation so it would engage a mechanical latch, the designer can then step the mechanical timer clockwise a notch every fifteen seconds.

The combination of mechanical timer and MCU control is simply amazing.
 

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I think the biggest problem with designing the motor controller is controlling the speed when there is a large "lump" of washing in there. The drum needs a hefty push with a load of water and wet washing in the bottom to get going then you need to reduce the speed otherwise the washing won't tumble and will just stick to the sides.

Likewise with the spin cycle, if you spin the washing up too fast, the washing clumps and the machine shakes itself to bits. You need an algorithm which will try and spread the washing evenly around the drum before spinning - if there is too much vibration, try again and again and again .......
 
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