Universal Programmers: Customer Support?

[DigiTan]

I'm thinking of buying a universal programmer later in the year for microcontroller/memory work. I've checked a few brands out and device lists for a while (currently, I'm leaning toward this brand). First, I want to gather some input and ask if anyone here has any experience or recommendations for universal programmer models or vendors. Since it's a substantial investment, I'm mostly concerned about making sure the manufacturer offers good warranties and support. Also it would help if the product is currently supported to where I could download firmware upgrades or bug fixes to the programmer itself should the need come up. Any advice?

 

[bryan]

Why not go for a MicroChip PicKit 2 or a 3 due out in January. BlueRoom electronics also makes a nice programmer. Both have great support and can be had for under $50.00

 

[kjennejohn]

Hi. Ebay is usually a good place to look for simple, less expensive units, like this:
**broken link removed**
A mere $70, plus $25 for S&H. Does 2000+ devices, check the devices-supported list link provided to see if it works on what you want. It does a fairly good job for ROMs of all sorts. PICs from the 12C series on up are here, but no 10Fs. Connects using USB, sounds fast.

I have an excellent Xeltek SUPER 3000 Pro, picked it up two years ago on Ebay for $800. It now retails for $1200, can probably be had for less. This does 20,000+ devices, and is well supported. I highly recommend it, but it defies most beginner budgets. Xeltek makes other devices that are less expensive, but do much fewer devices. This unit can store HEX code and device parameters on a CF card, which allows the user to program devices in the field away from a PC. But, you have to have to have external power, like an AC adapter or rig a battery with cable and DIN connector.

We had a Data I/O 2900 at work some years back. Cost $1400 to fix when it broke, then broke again five weeks later, outside of the repair warranty period. Junk.
It was replaced with an EETools SuperMax for $600, now obsolete. This worked well enough. We recently started using some esoteric Phillips processor which wasn't on their device list for this or its latest replacement programmer. They wanted us to spend another $600 to buy the new device before even considering to ATTEMPT to add the Philips chip. I took my Xeltek to work and we're using that now to program prototypes.

It comes down to what you want to program NOW versus what you want to do later and, of course, your budget. You can find $13 Olimex programmers on ebay that will do a handfull of PICs and some SEEPROMs. The device mentioned at the top looks like a good starter unit. USB seems the way to go, but most of the cheap units use serial ports, and there are models out there that use the parallel port. The last two ports are no longer found on most PCs or laptops.

If you have the budget, I recommend the Xeltek from personal experience.
kenjj

 

[3v0]

I would not buy a programmer without ICD (In Circuit Debug). I do not think a universal program will have it.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I would not buy a programmer without ICD (In Circuit Debug). I do not think a universal program will have it.

Neither do I - sounds a bad idea all round.

Why buy a very expensive programmer which does everything badly, rather than a number of cheap programmer/debuggers that do their specific jobs well.

 

[BeeBop]

Neither do I - sounds a bad idea all round.

Why buy a very expensive programmer which does everything badly, rather than a number of cheap programmer/debuggers that do their specific jobs well.

I agree with this good advice. These days the very expensive universal programmers seem more than a bit out dated.

 

[DigiTan]

To reiterate my post and title, whether or not I "need one" isn't up for debate. It's the companies and overall customer support. Moving on...

Hi. Ebay is usually a good place to look for simple, less expensive units, like this:
**broken link removed**
A mere $70, plus $25 for S&H. Does 2000+ devices, check the devices-supported list link provided to see if it works on what you want. It does a fairly good job for ROMs of all sorts. PICs from the 12C series on up are here, but no 10Fs. Connects using USB, sounds fast.

I have an excellent Xeltek SUPER 3000 Pro, picked it up two years ago on Ebay for $800. It now retails for $1200, can probably be had for less. This does 20,000+ devices, and is well supported. I highly recommend it, but it defies most beginner budgets. Xeltek makes other devices that are less expensive, but do much fewer devices. This unit can store HEX code and device parameters on a CF card, which allows the user to program devices in the field away from a PC. But, you have to have to have external power, like an AC adapter or rig a battery with cable and DIN connector.

We had a Data I/O 2900 at work some years back. Cost $1400 to fix when it broke, then broke again five weeks later, outside of the repair warranty period. Junk.
It was replaced with an EETools SuperMax for $600, now obsolete. This worked well enough. We recently started using some esoteric Phillips processor which wasn't on their device list for this or its latest replacement programmer. They wanted us to spend another $600 to buy the new device before even considering to ATTEMPT to add the Philips chip. I took my Xeltek to work and we're using that now to program prototypes.

It comes down to what you want to program NOW versus what you want to do later and, of course, your budget. You can find $13 Olimex programmers on ebay that will do a handfull of PICs and some SEEPROMs. The device mentioned at the top looks like a good starter unit. USB seems the way to go, but most of the cheap units use serial ports, and there are models out there that use the parallel port. The last two ports are no longer found on most PCs or laptops.

If you have the budget, I recommend the Xeltek from personal experience.
kenjj

That sounds like a good route. I happened to work with a lower-end Xeltek once on a previous assignment. And it was sorely missed when the lease ended. Other than lacking ARM/Cortex support and FPGAs--which nobody is going to do for universals for less than $1500--the brand can work with anything in my build orders for the next year and beyond. My deal is there's 100's if not 1000's of serial EEPROM and RISC microcontrollers I need to be able to use.

Budget-wise I decided I'm absolutely not going to spend more than $900. And there's bonus points for getting it at a fraction of that. I have my eye on ebay, and a few university/corporate auction venues. So assuming I find a reputable supplier and the machine is in working condition, I'm looking at the brands where I can get a firmware update if something goes wrong or...say...ATMEL releases a new AVR. But overall the Xeltek brand (namely everything starting with the Speed Pro 480U and up) is in the "class" of universals I'm looking for.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

To reiterate my post and title, whether or not I "need one" isn't up for debate. It's the companies and overall customer support. Moving on...

So why post the question?, if you want to spend an obscene amount of money on a vastly inferior product - that's your decision - but most people here would consider it a really bad and ill informed idea.

 

[colin mac]

We used the All-11 universal programmer in college. I wouldn't mind owning one, I just wouldn't risk the money. In case the company decides to bring out new hardware and stops the software updates for the previous one. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a programmer, that won't program the devices released in 3 years from now.
**broken link removed**

 

[tunedwolf]

I have the Xeltek superpro 280U at home, and I must admit it is probably the handiest programmer I have ever owned. It pretty much covers the devices I regularly encounter and more often than not, the oddball ones I sometimes trip over as well. I can't think of a single complaint with it. I once asked Xeltek to provide some programming specs on a device which my programmer, at the time, did not handle, not only did they happily provide an algorithm for me, they included the device in their next firmware release, in the end I didn't actually have to bother building a one off for it. Xeltek release new and free firmware for it regularly as well. In all it is a great little programmer from a long established company specialising in such devices, personally I can't fault the device or the company.

That all being said, I do agree with the coments here about debugging capabilities, and unless you are prepared to part with serious money you won't find much in the "universal" bracket.
I have several small, development style, programmers that can also do a little debugging for the smaller stuff I work on. I find the combination of all the programmers I own to be a good "all rounder". Each programmer has it's place and limitations, it's really a matter of looking at your work, development cycle and supported device list.

Hope this helps

rgds

 

[DigiTan]

We used the All-11 universal programmer in college. I wouldn't mind owning one, I just wouldn't risk the money. In case the company decides to bring out new hardware and stops the software updates for the previous one. I wouldn't want to be stuck with a programmer, that won't program the devices released in 3 years from now.
**broken link removed**

That's a good one too. The device list is pretty much in the same weight class as the the Super Pro 580U I've been eyeing and Tribal seems active enough. (Might give them a call on Monday for the usual Q&A's. The only part missing from off my list is the Xilinx Coolrunner-II series (it does their 9500 series + CR-I), but that's pretty minor. I've never seen the IDE for it before though.

I have the Xeltek superpro 280U at home, and I must admit it is probably the handiest programmer I have ever owned.

Which IDE are you using with the programmer? Back at work, I was using the Advin's Captain program and it worked extremely well. I think either the 280U, 580U, or the All-11 might be my best bet so far.

Also, does anyone remember offhand if the warranties were transferable?