UK it's illegal to have mains sockets in the bathroom

[ClydeCrashKop]

In the UK it's illegal to have mains sockets in the bathroom - the ONLY socket allowed is a special shaver socket, which is low power and isolated (and normally switchable for 110V/240V). So no hair dryers allowed.

American women wouldn’t tolerate that! Where do English women plug in curling irons, blow dryers and other female small appliances? What are the rules for kitchens?

 

[kubeek]

Not even if the bathroom is connected through a residual current breaker?

 

[throbscottle]

They use their small female appliances in the bedroom, theoretically at the dressing table, however often stood in the middle of the floor surrounded by an orbiting cloud of female things, which looks like chaos, but is actually a finely tuned engine of female going out preparation...
Of course, there is nothing to stop them using an extension lead in the bathroom...

 

[throbscottle]

Oh yeah, Rules for Kitchens.
The female rules the kitchen. Even if the male does all the cooking, the utensils have to live in female-designated locations. The male is required to help in the kitchen, however he is not allowed to be In The Way. These two requirements are often mutually exclusive.

Wiring and stuff just has to comply with regulations, pipes have to be earth-bonded, cooker has to have it's own fuse at, and wiring from, the consumer unit. Umm, that's about all I know!

 

[b.james]

The English legal system has loads and loads of archaic junk in it. This went out with RCD ( residual Current Detector) in the power box.

 

[tunedwolf]

The English legal system has loads and loads of archaic junk in it. This went out with RCD ( residual Current Detector) in the power box.

The english legal system and the IET wiring regulations are two completely different things, both of which contain an amazing number of archaic entries

The IET/ BS7671 wiring regulations, as used throughout the UK and beyond, in whole or in part under other naming schemes, are quite possibly the best in the world with regard to electrical safety. Even the sometimes seemingly archaic entries make sense when applied. The test and verification procedures are amazingly thorough. When the regulations are interpreted correctly and adhered to in a sensible way, the installation as a whole is extremely safe, however, disregard them and you have a collection of unsafe circuits and shoddy practises which may or may not lead to shock, electrocution, fire or injury further into the life of the installation. The regulations are there for a very good reason, no matter what they are called or what country uses them.

On the other hand, the english legal system will beat you about the head should you fail to properly apply the IET/ BS7671 wiring regulations and someone is injured as a result, even if it is sometimes full of archaic nonsense

The primary reason why no outlets are allowed in a bathroom is increased shock risk with lowered body resistance due to moisture. I agree that in a lot of cases, the use of a RCD rated for life protection will save your life when an accident occurs, however, these devices do fail over time and if not regularly tested, to ensure proper operability, then you may as well fit an outlet and be exposed to high current should things go wrong or when you umm "accidentally" drop a hairdryer in the bath along with your complaining wife

 

[Pommie]

To further add to the discussion. Light switches are also banned from Bathrooms, they have to be outside or a rope pull switch. My understanding of the rules are that prior to RCDs (and the rules) people got electrocuted due to a couple of reasons. Before central heating, bathrooms were cold places and when someone bathed the walls would literally run with condensed water. The water and the 250V (now 230) mains voltage lead to a number of fatalities.

I also vaguely remember another regulation about unearthed metal having to be more than an arm stretch from earthed taps etc. Maybe someone has a better memory of this than me. Not done any electrics now for about 30 years.

Mike.

 

[carbonzit]

Not to be rude or anything, but don't you Brits know about them newfangled GFCIs? That's what we use (according to the code*) here in N. Ammurica.

* The National Fire Code, promulgated by the Nat'l. Fire Protection Assoc.

 

[JimB]

There is lots of information about what is and is not allowed in a UK bathroom here:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.21.1328.-1AhD4bPucs

Generalising, mains sockets are not allowed, except where the bathroom is large and the cords on the appliances cannot stretch to the bath or basin.

JimB

 

[tunedwolf]

Not to be rude or anything, but don't you Brits know about them newfangled GFCIs? That's what we use (according to the code*) here in N. Ammurica.

* The National Fire Code, promulgated by the Nat'l. Fire Protection Assoc.

This would be the same code that has allowed wire nut design to be taken to a whole new level? We outlawed "Scruits" (wire nuts when still made of porcelain) decades ago on safety grounds

Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCI's) is the US term for Residual Current Devices (RCD's)

 

[carbonzit]

So why aren't RCDs deemed safe enough to protect occupants in a bathroom with outlets over there? We have them all over the place here, and from all accounts they work reliably.

And what's wrong with wire nuts? Properly installed, I've never seen one fail.

How do y'all connect your wires, anyhow?

 

[tunedwolf]

So why aren't RCDs deemed safe enough to protect occupants in a bathroom with outlets over there? We have them all over the place here, and from all accounts they work reliably.

And what's wrong with wire nuts? Properly installed, I've never seen one fail.

How do y'all connect your wires, anyhow?

We use a lot of terminal strip (chocolate box) type connectors, also a lot of insulated crimp ferrule types are now being used and I expect this method will be the way forward due to speed of installation, cost and tamper resistance offered. Wire nuts were dodgy in the UK for several reasons. They were fragile and if not handled properly were prone to cracking, the thread was actually cut into the porcelain, so the slightest uneven wire joint caused threading and loosening problems leading to heating and eventually fire, especially anywhere that was affected by vibration. The ones now used in the US and Canada etc have the added benefit of having a wire spring internally for threading, however, again, if the wire joint isn't great to begin with, the new risk is that the wire spring then carries current causing heating, burning and fire. The later wiring types used for domestic wiring in the UK moved from stranded cable to solid core, making wire nuts a poorer match mechanically and electrically. The US has however persisted in using them despite this change in their own cables. I agree though, if a properly made, stranded wire joint is formed and a good quality wire nut is properly fitted, it is about as safe as any other method in use today, but using them on solid cored wiring or anywhere subject to ground vibration is a risk in my opinion

RCD's in the UK are regarded as a means of indirect contact protection, a supplementary line of defense if you will, they will also help protect against a number of other conditions occuring downstream, and will happily react to certain nuisance disturbances upstream, much to the dismay of many installers that get their circuit designs wrong. The problem is they can often fail silently and without the end user being aware of the failure, especially true when proper test procedures are not followed, therefore they should not be relied upon. They don't just need to trip, they need to do so within a set time period, so sometimes although the test button works, it just isn't tripping fast enough to ensure safety

We have a whole list of areas needing special protection in our regulations, a steamy bathroom being one such area. The human body resistance is often reduced from the many megohms of dry skin to just a few kilohms when moist, and much, much less, perhaps 500ohms or less if the skin is damaged, or indeed if an electical burn takes place following a shock. That's quite apart from the many soaps and salts etc found in bathroom products that may be on your hands or body at the time, reducing that resistance further still. In this case, even although the RCD may trip off at a lower current deemed safe when dry skin is involved, there is sufficient current flow to injure, or kill when the skin is moist, wet or damaged.

Quite apart from that, none of these devices, including outlets, switches, RCD's and pretty much most things aimed at domestic installations (without further means of IP protection, like covers, membranes etc) are rated for use in wet environments

As an aside, Pommie mentioned sinks and taps etc. There are no actual regulations on spacing devices such as outlets and switches etc away from water sources, however there are several best practise construction guidelines that go hand in hand with the regulations that suggest 1000mm from water sources where practical with a 300mm minimum distance being observed where there is no alternative. Exposed metal parts like sinks, taps and drainers etc should all be earthed (grounded) and an equipotential earthing system is employed to ensure that there are no potential differences between surfaces, also the supply must automatically disconnect when any fault is presented, usually achieved by the breaker for that circuit. Basically, the common sense (this is where the word competent comes in) of the electrician, is relied upon to design a circuit properly and ensure that the highest level of safety is applied to the installation as a whole

 

[carbonzit]

The later wiring types used for domestic wiring in the UK moved from stranded cable to solid core, making wire nuts a poorer match mechanically and electrically. The US has however persisted in using them despite this change in their own cables. I agree though, if a properly made, stranded wire joint is formed and a good quality wire nut is properly fitted, it is about as safe as any other method in use today, but using them on solid cored wiring or anywhere subject to ground vibration is a risk in my opinion

Hmm; giving away my location, here in California, "ground vibration" is an ever-present danger (see recent devastating earthquake up in Napa). Since the bulk of wiring in homes here is solid ("Romex", obsolete trade name of plastic-jacketed solid-wire cable), almost all wire nuts used here (still the predominant method of connection, though there are others) are for solid-to-solid connections. (Exceptions: any runs in conduit, which generally use stranded wire, and at terminal connections to devices, like lamp sockets, which are generally all stranded.)

As I've said, I've never experienced any problems with wire-nut connections (properly made, of course), even given our seismic conditions. And one doesn't hear stories in the news of any widespread problems with them. So I have to say that it seems that your (UK) precautions are a bit excessive ... maybe a little on the nanny-state side?

 

[carbonzit]

[...] then you may as well fit an outlet and be exposed to high current should things go wrong or when you umm "accidentally" drop a hairdryer in the bath along with your complaining wife

Hmm; that last bit there is positively Hitchcockian ...

 

[tunedwolf]

As I've said, I've never experienced any problems with wire-nut connections (properly made, of course), even given our seismic conditions. And one doesn't hear stories in the news of any widespread problems with them. So I have to say that it seems that your (UK) precautions are a bit excessive ... maybe a little on the nanny-state side?

I have never seen any actually get to the point where they burn down a house either, and I agree, if the joint is properly made, they are as good as anything. I have seen evidence of burning though, loads of times, both in the UK and the US where I have either been stripping out or just happen to come across it when provisioning a new circuit etc. Luckily though, the joints were within metal wiring boxes and the damage didn't travel further down the cables. The US had a bad time with Aluminium wiring and wire nuts for a period due to oxidation and galvanic reaction causing the joint to corrode, but I think they have sorted that now. Nanny state? Perhaps, in some regards, certainly no more than anywhere else though that applies rules and regulations to it's population in the name of safety. I am glad, however, that even if the rules and regulations are introduced by a Nanny State, that they are in place

 

[tunedwolf]

Hmm; that last bit there is positively Hitchcockian ...

Not that I would actually recommend having that sort of "accident", some wives survive lightning strikes

 

[carbonzit]

The US had a bad time with Aluminium wiring and wire nuts for a period due to oxidation and galvanic reaction causing the joint to corrode, but I think they have sorted that now.

Yes, we "sorted it out" by not using that crap anymore! I'm not sure if it (aluminum wiring) is banned outright by the code, but it isn't used anymore, so far as I know. (However, one can still buy that anti-corrosion paste for use when connecting Cu to Al wires.)

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Not even if the bathroom is connected through a residual current breaker?

No, almost all houses in the UK have RCD's, and have had for many decades - but it's only an added layer of protection, not a 100% cure against dropping a hairdryer in the bath

 

[ClydeCrashKop]

I wouldn’t use a crimp terminal on solid wire. If you squeeze one solid against another solid, when you release it, the terminal springs back a little and doesn’t really stay tight. Wire nuts are often difficult to remove from solid wire. When you do, you will find that the wires are twisted really tight. I just consider them insulation once you have used them to twist the wires. While they work on stranded wire, crimp terminals are more likely to stay tight.

 

[ClydeCrashKop]

They use their small female appliances in the bedroom, theoretically at the dressing table, however often stood in the middle of the floor surrounded by an orbiting cloud of female things, which looks like chaos, but is actually a finely tuned engine of female going out preparation...

Haha I can just see corded appliances suspended from the blades of a ceiling fan!
Maybe that is a good thing so they don’t occupy the bathroom for hours. American bathrooms often look like this!

On the other hand, it keeps the mess contained.