To Try Linux?

[Styx]

If anyone is tempted to try linux I am sure you have gove for the liveCD's (like knoppix and such)

However, while LiveCD are fantastic for recovery (I carry around pentoo and Sabayon on the 8cm mini DVD's (more for security audit/repair and desktop replacement) a LiveCD really is only a showcase (for people new to Linux) and it really only shows what is origininally provided (which most of the time isn't alot)

may I suggest taking a trip over to VMWARE and downloading their VM-server (it is free just need to register). Then you can download the ISO file for say.. FedoraCore6 (or pick a distro)

THEN as long as you choose BRIDGED for the virtual network card you can really test out Linux (modify files, install programs)


Try out Eagle's Linux client and such.
You wont be able to get 3d acceleration if you wanted to test games) since this is a virtual-PC, but it provides a better testbed to the linux experience before deciding whether you want to re-partition yr drive and put linux on their as well

 

[mvs sarma]

Hi Styx, HNY2007 to you,

what a lovely topic! i do use redhat fedora core6 as upgraded from core 5 .we got a free disto from Linux For You magazine published from INDIA. while i am totally new to Linux, i do have some problems.
1. gamming --let me accept -i am not into it.
2. i am not yet been able to use videoCD playing on RC 6. as per some one's suggestion i tried Real10gold for linux -but invain-
3. similarly, if my adsl modem is OFF at booting time, even if i switch it ON later , it is not detected automatically and i have to go to networking and enable it again.

I am searching a guru for helpand suggestions plese.

 

[Hero999]

I'm posting this from Konqueror in Mandriva

I'm assuming you're still using Winwoes.

The best way is to resize your main NTFS partition, and create the following partitions, swap, ext3 and a small FAT32 for transferring files from Linux to Winwoes.

Now choose a distribution, go for something easy like Mandriva, Ubuntu etc. but make sure your hardware is fully supported first. Linux is generally very easy to install it's generally 3rd party drivers and software that can be a pain.

 

[Styx]

I'm posting this from Konqueror in Mandriva

I'm assuming you're still using Winwoes.

That post was originally posted via Links from my Gentoo install (only because I FUBAR'ed X in a 64bit environement)

been an avid Gentoo user (and ebuild maker/tester) for near on 3years and linux in total for ~8years. I actually forced myself to get into linux for my final year at Uni - formatted the laptop

year in year my windows use has dropped such that it is now only for games (only two - that will drop in March with QuakeWars and UT2007 out)

I do electronic design using Eagle for linux and also gEDA (getting their). Matlab:Simulink have linux clients and so does Xilinx for their synthiss stuff


This was more of a post to show people that there is a way to really use Linux without the risk of a re-partition (which is the most risky part of a linux install)


try it all

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I've installed Linux a few times over the years - but never really got in to it, although an old friend of mine used to be a BIG Linux fan, and had even written parts of the Kernal. Although last time I went to see him he was running a Windows laptop?.

He used to work for BT, at their computer centre, and downloaded complete Linux distributions from the USA with the sole use of a transatlantic T2 cable (I think it was T2?, it's going back a LONG time - back well before ADSL was available).

 

[justDIY]

I use linux for servers, and recommend it to my customers as well, since it offers everything Windows does, at a very low cost. However, I don't think linux is very good as a desktop OS. Too many things just don't work automatically, especially with gaming, multimedia and wireless networking.

I try linux on the desktop every few months, and continue to be disappointed. It has come a long way however, and I'm sure one day they'll get it right.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I try linux on the desktop every few months, and continue to be disappointed. It has come a long way however, and I'm sure one day they'll get it right.

I don't think the main problem is Linux, it's that most of the programs people want to run are Windows ones - web server wise, I consider Linux the way to go - in fact I specified Linux servers for my websites, as I had the choice of Windows or Linux ones.

 

[justDIY]

I don't think the main problem is Linux, it's that most of the programs people want to run are Windows ones

I agree that lack of application support is part of the problem. However, there are still hardware problems to be dealt with.

Some specific examples:

1) Under Windows, I'm able to use my sp/dif connected digital speakers without issue, however under linux i need to monkey with something called asoundrc and then I have no volume control.

2) Some of my computers connect to a wLAN using 802.11G with WPA2 authentication. Linux doesn't recognize one card at all, and another only works in 802.11B mode without any WPA or WPA2 authentication.

 

[Styx]

I agree that lack of application support is part of the problem. However, there are still hardware problems to be dealt with.

Some specific examples:

1) Under Windows, I'm able to use my sp/dif connected digital speakers without issue, however under linux i need to monkey with something called asoundrc and then I have no volume control.

2) Some of my computers connect to a wLAN using 802.11G with WPA2 authentication. Linux doesn't recognize one card at all, and another only works in 802.11B mode without any WPA or WPA2 authentication.

Well in all fairness Neither does Windows. Linux actually far exceeds windows in hardware support. My wireless did not work after XP installed, neither did sound, graphics was extreamly laggy just on the desktop...

Completly the opposite with Gentoo (wireless up straight away,sound as well and the desktop was usable until 3D drivers installed)

What is correct is there is alot more windows support from hardware manufactures.

Wireless is the biggest demonstration of this.
There is only ~6 wireless ship manufactures in the world on is a Microsoft fanboy (broadcom) and the reverse-eng is very slow a couple while open about most things are cagy abt things to do with their firmware blobs making operation cagy (Intel,...) and the rest have fantastic support (ralink...)
(there is also the use of ndiswrapper to use the windows drivers which work for all cards)


it is getting better, ATi are taking linux very seriouly and are really push to catch-up with nvidia, equally Creative have said they plan to release a kernel-blob for their X-fi snd cards mid this year (with creative a big MS-fanboy its a good sign)

The hardware that is supported is supported very well and easy to setup, those part's that are not (most wifi native,some sound and some USB-stuff) can make a transition hard but most can be worked around (but takes alot of "hacking" so not for all)



The transition is usually split into two parts
1) hardware (as discussed) and can be really taxing if things arn't native-supported. With some foreplanning (on a custom-build) you can get 100% supported hardware (I have, and use wireless!!!) but it is alot of effort - but still you may be supprised

2) software (incluse the OS)
This is by far a bigger stumbler. Because Linux is "different" people perceve it as hard. It isn't it is just different. and not being able to find the equivlent program for <insert windows program here> can be frustrating

that is why this VMware virtual-install (over a liveCD) has it's advantages (since you are still within windows) you can try out those other software



but rest assurd if you want a piece of software some equiv is more then likely going to exist and if you are having a problem with a piece of hardware, someone else would of and found a way to get it to work


Linux isn't for all, and equally neither is windows - choice is good

 

[Hero999]

Linux supports more hardware than Windows, it will run on many system architectures that Windows won't.

The problem is that lots of cheap PC hardware is only designed with Windows in mind and therefore is only shipped with Windows software. The manufacturers keep the protocol used by their hardware secret to stop other companies copying it but unfortunately this means that the Linux community (to their credit) relies on a process of reverse engineering to write their drivers.

This biggest probelms I've had are printers, scanners and my on-board graphics card isn't accelerated under Linux.

As far as I'm concerned the only problem Linux has that the community can do something about is that software and driver installation on Linux isn't the easiest things in the world. There's no standard package format and desktop integration of software can be a problem too.

Is Linux really ready for clueless the lazy user?

Well no not really, even though overall Linux is easy to install providing all the drivers and software you want are either on the CD or in the distro's repositories. Things only get hard when you need to install 3rd party software or drivers and the large majority of home users will want to do just that.

 

[Styx]

and my on-board graphics card isn't accelerated under Linux.

is it an Intel chipset? intel opened their drivers so u can get 3D accel (check our Beryl if that is the case - very nice)

 

[Hero999]

It's an S3 pro Savage varient, it's not a particularly fast card but all I know it's much faster under Windows than Linux. I've tried using a variety of drivers with similar results.

 

[Styx]

what distro?
Under Gentoo it gets pulled in (via make.conf selection) as: xf86-video-savage

whatever distro you are running If it has Xorg-7.2 it should have something along these lines avail and as long as you have DRM enabled in the kernel you will get some 3D accel

 

[Hero999]

I've had the same probelm with Ubuntu, Vector Linux, Redhat (yes I know it's an old distro, but I'm mentioning it anyway) and Mandriva.

What's DRM apart from Digital Rights Management?

I certainly not going to install yet another distro just to try to get it working!

 

[Styx]

DRM (as to what it has stood for for alot longer then digi rights) is
direct rendering manager

Not suggesting try another distro, just pointing out that Xorg has the drivers. Whatever you are using should be upgraded. I was pointing out that Gentoo has the package (thus others do as well)

It is part of the Modular Xorg (modular since Xorg7). There are Xorg drivers for S3 and Savage (whatever is best???). you will need DRM in the kernel to really take advantage of it

 

[Hero999]

Sorry I didn't mean to sound abrupt earlier on.

Anyway, I'm currently using an S3 Savage driver on Linux, I supose it doesn't support the 3D acceleration on my board.

 

[mramos1]

I have not looked at Linux for a year. I went to FreeBSD many years ago and it is GREAT. Makes a great server. PCBSD is sort of neat far as a workstation though. Saw that a couple months ago. My son was running it.

JustDIY and Nigel said it all though. It just does not look like a workstation yet (did not when I last looked) and it will not run Windows programs.

The main problem is people get used to the Windows programs and are stuck in Bill's world. Like me

 

[Sceadwian]

People that like playing PC games are stuck in Bill's world =) Keep in mind you can just as easily us VMware's software to run windows XP on a linux system for those few applications that still need windows. It really comes down to what kind of applications you use most and weather or not it's worth switching. For the average user it's not worth it. There are hidden 'costs' to free operating systems like linux =) Primarily core knowledge and software upkeep. It's not for newbs. Even the best linux distros still can't compete with the general public because people are going to ask why they can't user this or that piece of software without having to install driver updates or recompile code =)

 

[mramos1]

Sceadwian:

I have many FreeBSD boxes. No Linux servers at my office, it is a business and I need the speed and lack of windows like issues. I ran Linux there years ago.

I have my Windows machine for me to talk to the world and run Photoshop, Sketchup, Autocad, etc., etc., etc..

So you are telling me (I have MANY FREEBSD boxes I run all day and night, so think I can run Linux; oh, I have no GUI on the Unix/BSD boxes, that might be my problem .).

But if I installed Linux (you pick the package) and pull VMware, I can 100% drop my Windows box? Done deal, guide me.

Far as PC games, until I saw my kids Wii (that I told my wife to get so I can look at the controller and it was Christmas and that was all I heard about; and two guitars) I have not played a game in years. But I did play with the Wii and it was fun.

But you can hook me up so I do not need a Windows PC at work, home and on my LAPTOP? Sign me up.

So again, it is not a workstation/client OS, it will not run the programs we all need for making a living or even my hobby. And as you said play games.

The BEST Unix guy I know now works for a big Windows server shop now. Second best has a MAC (and he told me OK to get a Wii for the kids and I wanted to see the controller).

I am not being mean, just again, we are all trapped in Bill's world, and you fighting Bill makes us all newbs (as you put it). Wake up and smell the coffee. The guy has made billions.

But if you can show me how to get all my stuff under Linux, I will flip back so fast. But I have to face the real world everyday. The real world and I have to use Windows to do my job.

 

[i_build_stuff]

I've been running Linux almost exclusively for about a year now, and used it on and off for a few years before that. It wasn't really an intentional "switch" so much as a gradual drift. I got used to the software available for Linux over time, by running it more and more, and eventually stopped having a reason to run Windows as a base OS.

For those programs that still need Windows (Quartus), QEMU seems to do what I need it to (VMware serves the same purpose). There's a small speed hit, and you don't get to use the 3D graphics card, but it does have the advantage of running in 'snapshot' mode. This means you can freeze your VM after installing everything, and run a "virgin" install every time (good for security / reliability / testing). You can also make portable workspaces this way, which is useful for some.