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specialized motor controller

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Tallon Karde

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I am working on a project to build a motorized actuator for a pop-up target system similar to what the military uses, accept this would be for 3D archery. It has been a long time since I worked with electronics on the component level. I designed a control circuit for basic automated operation of of the motor but I don't know if it will work or what value my components should be. can anyone give me some assistance on this? see the attachment for details.
 

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ericgibbs

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I am working on a project to build a motorized actuator for a pop-up target system similar to what the military uses, accept this would be for 3D archery. It has been a long time since I worked with electronics on the component level. I designed a control circuit for basic automated operation of of the motor but I don't know if it will work or what value my components should be. can anyone give me some assistance on this? see the attachment for details.
hi,:)
After a quick look at your circuit, I would suggest you rethink the design.

Are you open to ideas on how to actuate this motor with the required time delays.?
 

Tallon Karde

New Member
I am completely open to ideas. I am limited however in that this needs to be as simple as possible, powered by a 12 volt battery, and relatively inexpensive; also this controller will be somewhat exposed to weather and outdoor conditions. FYI, I am looking to use a starter motor off of a lawn tractor, and the item to be moved will be stood upright but counterbalanced so that there is very little weight to push. There are several options that I had considered as functions for the unit, but I settled on a basic input to cause the unit to stand up a target after a fews seconds delay, hold target upright for 8 to 10 seconds then lower it and wait to be activated again. Thanks for the interest and assistance.
 

ericgibbs

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I am completely open to ideas. I am limited however in that this needs to be as simple as possible, powered by a 12 volt battery, and relatively inexpensive; also this controller will be somewhat exposed to weather and outdoor conditions. FYI, I am looking to use a starter motor off of a lawn tractor, and the item to be moved will be stood upright but counterbalanced so that there is very little weight to push. There are several options that I had considered as functions for the unit, but I settled on a basic input to cause the unit to stand up a target after a fews seconds delay, hold target upright for 8 to 10 seconds then lower it and wait to be activated again. Thanks for the interest and assistance.
hi,
This is your circuit in LTspice simulation, as expected it will not work.
You should check to make sure I have not misread your sketch.

Are you able to build a electronic circuit if I produce a drawing.:)

Also do you already have SCR's and relays that you want to use.?
 

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Tallon Karde

New Member
I am open to building from your drawing. I am able to do board and component work ok. Like I said before its been a long time since I took electronics in college and I never did much in the way of design work. I am curious as to why my design wouldn't work, I tried to build it last night on a practice board but it didn't work (no surprise since I really didn't know what value components to use).
 

ericgibbs

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I am open to building from your drawing. I am able to do board and component work ok. Like I said before its been a long time since I took electronics in college and I never did much in the way of design work. I am curious as to why my design wouldn't work, I tried to build it last night on a practice board but it didn't work (no surprise since I really didn't know what value components to use).
hi,
Study the effect on the voltage across the 1st SCR when switched to conduct.
All the voltage appears across Rel1, so the SCR switches OFF.

Also consider the value of the timing caps that trigger the SCR's gates, the Gates require a current drive over a certain value in order to set the SCR on.
etc....
 

Tallon Karde

New Member
Can you tell me what changes I need to make to my circuit to make it work? Or is my design not workable and need to start from scratch. my concern is having a time delay at the beginning of the cycle of about 5 seconds after activation, running the motor one direction until it stops, then have a time delay of about 8-10 seconds before reversing the motor, and running it to the stop at the bottom to end the cycle.
 

ericgibbs

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Can you tell me what changes I need to make to my circuit to make it work? Or is my design not workable and need to start from scratch. my concern is having a time delay at the beginning of the cycle of about 5 seconds after activation, running the motor one direction until it stops, then have a time delay of about 8-10 seconds before reversing the motor, and running it to the stop at the bottom to end the cycle.
hi,
In its present configuration, IMHO the circuit is not workable.:)

What you are asking isnt difficult do with a little electronic circuitry.

1. Push a button > start 5 second delay
2. At the end of the 5secs start the motor driving up, until it opens the 'up' contacts.
3. When the 'up' contacts opened start a 8 second delay
4. At the end of the 8 second delay start the motor driving down, until it opens the 'down' contacts.
5. Then wait for next push button OR restart the cycle.

Does this explain the project.?:)

Do you want a circuit that uses the SCR's that you have.?
 

Tallon Karde

New Member
Hey; that's it exactly. Can you tell me where I went wrong or is the whole design wrong? As for components, I have 8 tyn412rg 12amp 400volt st SCRs, a couple of 5amp SPDT roller switches, assorted resistors, 4 30amp automotive relays(SPST 30a @ 12v), 1 1kµf cap, 1 2.2µf cap, and 4 n414 and 2n5404 diodes. I also have a dual 556cn timer IC. I can get most anything I need if it isn't too expensive. I am pretty good at soldering and working with small tedious stuff. I worked for years on electric forklifts doing heavy component and board troubleshooting, so doing this will be fun...What did IHMO mean in your last post, I'm not great with acronyms.
 

ericgibbs

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Hey; that's it exactly. Can you tell me where I went wrong or is the whole design wrong? As for components, I have 8 tyn412rg 12amp 400volt st SCRs, a couple of 5amp SPDT roller switches, assorted resistors, 4 30amp automotive relays(SPST 30a @ 12v), 1 1kµf cap, 1 2.2µf cap, and 4 n414 and 2n5404 diodes. I also have a dual 556cn timer IC. I can get most anything I need if it isn't too expensive. I am pretty good at soldering and working with small tedious stuff. I worked for years on electric forklifts doing heavy component and board troubleshooting, so doing this will be fun...What did IHMO mean in your last post, I'm not great with acronyms.
hi,
Working on a design proposal, give me a couple of days and I will post.
 

ericgibbs

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hi TK,
Look at this provisional design.
I would have preferred SPCO relays contacts, so that it could be wired to prevent misoperation of both relay sets at the same time.

Some extra circuitry is required if you require safety interlocks.
 

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Tallon Karde

New Member
Hi; just had a look at the schematic. looks good to me, but it looks like you are using a pulsed voltage to make it work. is that right or am I just getting confused by the current diagram. my power source is the 12 volt battery, would I need a separate power supply for triggering this circuit? also, I want to be able to trigger it by remote up to 40 meters away. I was looking at some commercial stuff, but I would like to build something that is more specific to what I am doing. Any suggestions? P.S. I can probably get the SPCO relays without any problems, I don't have to use these relays. Having interlocking relays is a good idea as I wouldn't want to create a glitch that could mess up my system (or launch my 3D target at an unsuspecting archer. lol)
 
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ericgibbs

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Hi; just had a look at the schematic. looks good to me, but it looks like you are using a pulsed voltage to make it work. is that right or am I just getting confused by the current diagram. my power source is the 12 volt battery, would I need a separate power supply for triggering this circuit? also, I want to be able to trigger it by remote up to 40 meters away. I was looking at some commercial stuff, but I would like to build something that is more specific to what I am doing. Any suggestions? P.S. I can probably get the SPCO relays without any problems, I don't have to use these relays. Having interlocking relays is a good idea as I wouldn't want to create a glitch that could mess up my system (or launch my 3D target at an unsuspecting archer. lol)
hi,
Its only pulsed for the simulation.
A standard n/o toggle switch will start the sequence.

Look at this option for SPCO relays.:)
 

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Tallon Karde

New Member
Thank you for this information. I can't believe I didn't think of using that type of relay. I guess I had my mind locked on the other type of relay. I am going to get the components and build this controller. I will let you know how it works out.
 

ericgibbs

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Thank you for this information. I can't believe I didn't think of using that type of relay. I guess I had my mind locked on the other type of relay. I am going to get the components and build this controller. I will let you know how it works out.
hi,
OK, so I will post the circuit showing these relays.

Ive added a simple relay to the circuit, this will act as a latch when you push the remote switch [ 40mtrs] away.


EDIT:
I have deleted the refs to the sim, should make it easier to follow.:)
 

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kinarfi

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May I suggest a few slight modifications, attached, and ask a question of Eric?
In the bottom left of your drawing, why parallel a 100nf with a 220uf? My logic says the 100nf is like another handful of sand in a child's sand box, you'll never notice the change. Is there a specific reason for it?
Thanks
Kinarfi
 

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ericgibbs

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May I suggest a few slight modifications, attached, and ask a question of Eric?
In the bottom left of your drawing, why parallel a 100nf with a 220uf? My logic says the 100nf is like another handful of sand in a child's sand box, you'll never notice the change. Is there a specific reason for it?
Thanks
Kinarfi
hi,:)
If you compare the capacitive reactance of a 100nf[ ceramic] with a 220uF electrolytic cap, you will see that the 100nF has a much lower reactance value at higher frequencies than a electrolytic.
So it is more effective in reducing the higher freq noise.

Its common practice.

BTW: in the drawing you modified, the OP didnt have SPCO relays, I had to use that symbol.
 
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kinarfi

Well-Known Member
Thank You, I suspected that frequencies might be the reason, although I didn't know the reasoning behind it. I also modified my drawing some more and replaced what I had.
Appreciative,
Kinarfi
 

Tallon Karde

New Member
Hi; it took me a few minutes to digest the information change but I have it now. You have 2 SCRs that drive the relays but they aren't labeled for a particular type, I assume I can use the SCRs that I have already? also do you have any suggestions for a simple wireless remote to use to trigger the unit?
 
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