# solenoid valve

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#### Dr_Doggy

##### Well-Known Member
I have this ball valve, it is 1 1/4" , to get one with a proper solenoid on it it costs 3-4 hundred dollars.... and im pretty sure they are on/off only

A) I have an idea to just use a servo, but i know that will not have enough torque alone, so may need some gears and a pot to read position(instant timing and high speed is not an issue... as long as it actuates within a few seconds <20sec)

B) use a push pull solenoid and cable tie it to the pipe

but I am very bad at calculating what I will need for torque or gear ratios, also not sure how i will mount or waterproof(I have some ideas for waterproofing)?
preferably something analog if possible so i can half open the switch too...

any ideas?
what kind of motor i should use OR how to calculate torque/motor required?
how to mount all this?

#### Dr_Doggy

##### Well-Known Member
all good ideas that i was thinking of,
but i worry about the sprinkler and these motorized ball valves, are they able to half open?

like the actuator idea too, and i measured the red handle is about 2", so that means actuator needs to be able to stretch across the hypotenuse , so 4" or 10cm,
but how many newtons is that required to turn the handle? I know its requires a bit of effort...
and how would i measure current position, endstops??

#### Dr_Doggy

##### Well-Known Member
....also i have been searching ebay, but there is nothing local, and there have been insane import charges on shipping to canada lately... so to make it more difficult i need to steer away from online shopping.. i still like to browse though, to see whats out there!

#### ronsimpson

##### Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
The valve you have is hard to turn.
There are places where you can get a large gear like this. If you can attach it to the valve then a smaller motor can turn the valve slowly.

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#### MaxHeadRoom78

##### Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
And here is a reasonably priced motorized ball valve. **broken link removed**
I believe those are simple on/off , they are motorized but use a DC to close and store a charge in a capacitor to turn off when the power is removed.

You could buy a simple DC motor and G.B. and a multi-turn/10 turn pot but would require some intelligent controller such as Pic etc.
Max.

#### Dr_Doggy

##### Well-Known Member
... just did a quick test and can just barely turn the valve by pushing with my finger but google doesnt say what force that is, so i have just tries pushing the bathroom scale with my finger and i got to 15-17 pounds... so does that mean my dial is around 75 newtons?

I found lots of actuators at the robot shop, and strangely are all the same price, these guys are awesome!!!
https://www.robotshop.com/ca/en/linear-actuator-l16-140-150-12-s.html
that one should fit my specs right!?
also i notice analog feed back built in!

... plus i need to think about the elements but im sure a cheap rain cover will be ok?

a small micro-controller is most likely anyway .... and seems to be working out cheaper then servo idea..

#### Les Jones

##### Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Hi Max,
The type of valve in spec's first link is used on central heating systems. If they are the same as to ones on our old central heating system they are driven one way by the motor (Which stalls at the end of travel but is designed to not be damaged when stalled.) and returned by a spring when power is removed. They normaly only have to deal with the pressure from the circulating pump so I do not believe they would be able to shut off mains water pressure. (The water pressure to our house is about 45 PSI.) The type in spec's second link (The one you quote,) looks like it is driven in both directions by a reversable AC motor controled by a set of changeover contacts .(Look at the close up view of the diagram on the side of the valve. I think the motor will be the type that has two winding. one end of each winding is connected to say neutral and the other ends joined by a capacitor.when live is connected to the end of one winding the motor rotates in one direction. If it is connected to the other winding it rotates in the opposite direction. As the data says it only consumes power while opening and closing it must have limit switches. I think this type of valve would be capable of controlling mains water pressure.

Les.

#### MaxHeadRoom78

##### Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
... just did a quick test and can just barely turn the valve by pushing with my finger but google doesnt say what force that is, so i have just tries pushing the bathroom scale with my finger and i got to 15-17 pounds... so does that mean my dial is around 75 newtons?
..
To measure force/torque needed you can use a lever or disc attached to the object you want to turn and use a string and a spring scale to measure the break-away force required to turn it.
Radius x oz/lbs is the torque required
Max.

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