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"Solar into Grid Tied Inverters" is going to die off?

Flyback

Well-Known Member
This is what i mean...


GTI's have got serious problems up ahead !!!

If people want there own solar generation. Then pretty soon, they are going to have to "island" their household mains from the grid, and just use a standard Non grid tied inverter from the panels to supply their household...

This is obvious, do you not agree? GTI's are no good when too many people have them, because they "pump" the mains voltage up, and GTI's stop working when mains goes above 253VAC.
 

nsaspook

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
You local utility needs to redesign systems for two way power flow by reducing transmission losses typically engineered into one way power lines. Many affluent neighborhoods with lots of solar have already competed the process because it's not cheap for the utility to upgrade equipment only lose more money on energy not delivered because of high solar energy production from customers.

OZ is in this pickle of a mess because they half arsed the electrical standard. :facepalm:

It turns out Australia’s standard isn’t 235 volts plus or minus 8%. It’s actually 230 volts +10% or -6%, giving a range of 216.2 to 253 volts. You may be wondering why the plus goes all the way up to 10% and the minus only goes down to 6%. Well, that’s because Australia really wanted to be able to say we had changed from our old standard of 240 volts down to the much more common 230 volts that is an international standard.3

The downside is it’s really difficult for a grid designed for an average of 240 volts to get down to an average of 230. We only had two sensible options:

1. Do the hard work and spend the large amount of money required to make the change.

2. Admit there would be a long transition period where the voltage would average between 230 and 240 volts.

So, of course, we instead decided to:

3. Half arse it.

We lowered the average voltage as far as it would easily go with existing grid infrastructure and then claimed to have met the standard by abusing the concept of plus or minus and allowing a big plus 10% with a considerably smaller minus 6%.

We’ve been slowly working our way down further as old equipment is replaced. At the current rate, in South Australia, this process will take around 250 years. Mind you, we’ll have to pick up the pace at some point when aging equipment starts falling apart.
 

Visitor

Well-Known Member
This is obvious, do you not agree? GTI's are no good when too many people have them, because they "pump" the mains voltage up.....

I for one DO NOT AGREE. Utilities are working on systems where they can throttle power produced by consumers to control what's being fed into the grid. A fairly simple solution to throwing up your m arms and screaming "all is lost".

Furthermore, I disagree with you that the only solution is "islanding" from the power grid. Solar power can be used to charge home storage solutions to supply some of the household demands as power is available.
 

Flyback

Well-Known Member
I for one DO NOT AGREE. Utilities are working on systems where they can throttle power produced by consumers to control what's being fed into the grid.
Thanks, yes, that could happen, but that would put consumers off having a GTI, and make them prefer an " islanded" system, where the power company cannot switch off their solar inverter.
By islanded i mean the solar system and its battery, and inverter, is not connected to the grid, but only to the household loads.
 

ronsimpson

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
When I pull 100A the line voltage (at the pole) drops by some very small amount. (have not measured)
If the house is using 50A and solar is applying 60A the line will go up by (?? some very very small amount)
For this to be a problem, we need to go from no houses having solar in my square mile to having 80% solar. (maybe 120%)
Considering my neighbors think there is no global warming and Coal is from God, there will never be 80% solar.
In some areas, the power company will pay you to install a switch on the AC so they can set the air-condition to 50% when the load reaches maximum they can make. Smart idea. I think smart will come up with a answer long before we have too much solar.
 

Visitor

Well-Known Member
Thanks, yes, that could happen, but that would put consumers off having a GTI, and make them prefer an " islanded" system, where the power company cannot switch off their solar inverter.
By islanded i mean the solar system and its battery, and inverter, is not connected to the grid, but only to the household loads.

You fail to account for one major factor – the cost and maintenance of a battery storage system. A grid-tie system just works; it's installed, the power bill goes down, and there's no need to think about it.

A battery system has a large cost penalty both for the batteries themselves and the control system, and it becomes a system that requires maintenance and thought.

BTW – to me, "islanding" suggests cutting yourself off the grid. A more understandable term might be "load sharing" – the local system can carry some or most of the load, but draws power from the grid when necessary.
 

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