Simple Project

[SpuddyMcFuddy]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and am VERY slowly refreshing my apparently very poor electronic knowledge.

Part of the circuit is to display a number, it is actually counting the number of litres of water pumped along a water line. I would like however to display it using either a dot matrix or LCD display rather than an 7-segment LED, which will make me look like the amateur I clearly am! I have rediscovered the 4510 and 4511 that take the clock circuit from the 555 timer and convert it into the signal for the 7 segment display but cannot find anywhere that enables me to use a simple circuit for the display using a LCD or dotmatrix WITHOUT using a PIC? Is it possible to use a couple of chips and a dot-matrix display or do you have to go some more complicated method using something like a PIC?

I desperately don't want to use an 7segment - I want the finished article to look professional and would love to use an dotmatrix or some-such.

Any help would be greatly received.

Paul

 

[mramos1]

I do not see doing it without an LCD display and microcontroller. But that is me, there are some clever folks here.

Not sure what a dot matrix display is.

If you do go with a PIC, a lot of the high level compilers have LCDout type commands to make life easier. You can probably get a pre-made-board, that is wired with PIC, LCD and compiler for a fair price.

How are you measuring the liquid?

 

[SpuddyMcFuddy]

If I have to use a PIC for these sort of displays, how easy is it to use and program them? How do I program them; you see why I wanted to avoid them - I have no idea about them!

Sorry for the novice questions; help required !!


And if this is the only way to do it (using a PIC) then what is an EASY and CHEAP method of programming them and what sort of PIC would I require?

 

[mramos1]

There are a lot of boards that have a socket for the PIC (and generally come with the PIC chip), with LCD display and BASIC compiler. I would recommend BASIC, it is really easy. They have commands like LCDout "1.5" that will display 1.5 on the LCD display. Also, they have inputs on them for collect
your data.

ATMEL has something called the butterfly, I think I paid $19 for it. Has a microcontroller, LCD display, 4 or 5 button joystick, programming software, etc. There is a program called AVRDUDE and you can make a simple serial cable and dump your code to it without using their boot loader. First thing I did when I picked one up. I think it had a real time clock and temp sensor..
Google atmel butterfly.

Also, parallax.com has some PIC type boards as well (parallax.com I think), but they are expensive IMHO. I am sure other here at electro Tech can send you a list nice low cost boards with LCD and BASIC.

But the bufferfly might be all you need and it was cheap.

 

[eblc1388]

You don't need to learn PIC to do just that.

What you need is a simple LCD counter module like the following:

**broken link removed**

These count up by one when a simple pulse is applied to a pin. Just google "LCD counter module" for a lot of choices.

 

[jbeng]

To use a dot-matrix display, you'll need to send it data from a microcontroller. However, if the circuit that you currently have uses 4511 BCD-to-7 segment display drivers, you could simply substitute the 4543 (14543) display driver for it. The 4543 is designed to drive LCD displays, but can also drive various other types of displays (ie. CA & CC LED, fluorescent, incandescent). I would probably use an LCD like the FE0206 from AND (datasheet below).
To use this driver with LCDs, you have to apply a square wave of 100 Hz or so to pin 6 ("PH") of the driver chip and the same square wave signal to pin 1 ("BP") of the display. (You can't apply straight DC to an LCD and expect it to last for any length of time.) Then, just connect the driver outputs directly to the appropriate LCD pins. Also, connect any segments on the LCD you don't intend to use to pin 1 (BP).

Here's a PDF datasheet for the driver:https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2006/05/MC14543B-DPDF.pdf
And here's one for the display: https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2006/05/FE0206PDF.pdf

JB

 

[Hero999]

What you need is a simple LCD counter module like the following:

**broken link removed**

These count up by one when a simple pulse is applied to a pin. Just google "LCD counter module" for a lot of choices.

I agree, why build something when it's probably better to buy an off the shelf part?

Sometimes it's interesing to build something, but often it's a inconvenient.

 

[SpuddyMcFuddy]

Hello again,

I am considering this PIC Programmer, it seems to be about the only/best one I can get my hands on in the UK:
**broken link removed**

However I do not know as to wether or not this is a decent board or not; is it decent enough to do the things I want? Basically get a PIC to run a LCD?
If it is poor or a rip off does anyone know of another that I could get my hands on within the UK?

Also, I don't know if I am assuming correctly or not, but I assume that if I use BASIC then that is simply the programming language I am using and the program I use to compile the code; the hardware and PIC's are the same it is just a different piece of software?

Sorry about the novice questions; but if I don't ask I can't learn!!

Thanks for your help.
Paul

NB
Or would something like the EASYPic 3 be better?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Hello again,

I am considering this PIC Programmer, it seems to be about the only/best one I can get my hands on in the UK:
**broken link removed**

However I do not know as to wether or not this is a decent board or not; is it decent enough to do the things I want? Basically get a PIC to run a LCD?
If it is poor or a rip off does anyone know of another that I could get my hands on within the UK?

Also, I don't know if I am assuming correctly or not, but I assume that if I use BASIC then that is simply the programming language I am using and the program I use to compile the code; the hardware and PIC's are the same it is just a different piece of software?

Sorry about the novice questions; but if I don't ask I can't learn!!

Thanks for your help.
Paul

NB
Or would something like the EASYPic 3 be better?

The Velleman programmer from Maplin is hardly the 'only one you can get in the UK', and is generally considered pretty poor!.

I suggest you try **broken link removed** who have a far greater (and better) range. There are many other programmer suppliers in the UK though!.

 

[mramos1]

If you are looking for a programmer, you will need to get an LCD display and compiler as well. Nigel has a very good tutorial on LCD. The the link on the above post from him. But also note, he likes assembler and you are new to microcontrollers and that might be more work that you are looking to tackle.

You might need to get a compiler (C or basic). If you find a compiler with LCDout, LCDprint or LCD_output support, see which LCD units they support and check the price.

How many units are you making?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

You might need to get a compiler (C or basic). If you find a compiler with LCDout, LCDprint or LCD_output support, see which LCD units they support and check the price.

You also need to be aware though, if you don't have a reasonable knowledge of assembler you can't use either a BASIC or C compiler effectively - because you don't know what the hardware you're attempting to use is doing.

 

[William At MyBlueRoom]

I desperately don't want to use an 7segment - I want the finished article to look professional and would love to use an dotmatrix or some-such.
Paul

7 Segment displays can look very professional. They even come in blue. If you still can't stand the idea of LEDs and want to spend the $$ look into a noritake VFD.

https://www.noritake-elec.com/

 

[SpuddyMcFuddy]

I have been looking at the EasyPIC3, which seems relatively simple and, using basic, as good a place as any to start my programming career.
My questions are firstly - is this a decent enough board and a decent place to start.
Secondly are PIC's very versatile - is it essentially if PIN 1 goes high then display on LCD = "Pin 1 High" etc Do they just display to LCD's or can you output to anything?
Thirdly, what type of LCD's can you display too? Is it just the segment LCDs, GLCD or could you even output to a colour LCD ala MiniTV stylie?

The reason I ask these questions, is this will be my fathers day present from my son (well wife, he's 17months) and want to make sure I don't just use it for my one project and it gathers dust from then on.

Apologies again for noobie questions

 

[mramos1]

That might take longer to figure out than to design your project from scratch

It looks like overkill, but I did see it yesterday and didn't forward it to you for that reason. Notice the LCD displays are optional... I did not read the manual to see if it had a high level lanuage or LCDout command.

Just my thoughts.

Did you look at Nigel's LCD tutorial? I still like BASIC, but it will get you started in the right direction. He also has programming software and you can get a low cost programmer. P16PRO or something in kit form. Google for that. Also look at dontronics.com

 

[SpuddyMcFuddy]

The trouble is, I look at some of the other PIC programmers and there looks like nothing there; it kind of makes me think £40 for a small board or £60 for, visually at least, every bell and whistle out there!?
I noticed that the LCD's where optional also, but would still get them to use for the project that I am doing.

I would prefer to use basic, as far as I can see looking at Nigels tutorials which do look excellent, using BASIC simply writes that code out anyway - so I have a vaguely decent basic knowledge so I can start higher up the ladder than I could with a ground level start using assembler.

The basic trouble is I do not know where to start.
I do not know what programmer to buy, I know its overkill to buy the whole PIC programmer system, to simply do a counter, but I would also like the display to say what is wrong with the faulty system should there be a fault.
My basic project is this:

I have three outputs from transistors/sensors. 1 is in a main water tank, 2 is in the high level tank and 3 is in the overflow.

If 2 is triggered then 1 should be checked to see if there is water in it, if yes then the pump is activated and water is pumped from the main water tank up to the high level tank until the level 2 monitor is turned off. All the time the counter is counting displaying the litres of water pumped up from the main to high tank. Number 3 sensor is only triggered, should sensor 2 essentially fail, and will cancel the pump and display something along the lines of "overflow running" or something along those lines.
What it boils down to is; I want to be able to display the amount of litres used along with any faults that may develop - I would perhaps even like to develop the system further to incorporate other systems; which is perhaps why I would like to use a PIC so I could, ahem, simply reprogram it to accept more inputs or different output displays etc.

Not really sure what my question is to all this - basically I suppose - what does anyone think I should do; probably go home and leave the forum! Any help would be gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

As already suggested, look at my tutorials, they are easily (and cheaply) built on veroboard, all you need is a PIC programmer to program the PIC's, and these are easily available at low cost (or build your own).

 

[SpuddyMcFuddy]

Okay Nigel, you are winning me over.

My first problem still applies however, which PIC programmer should I buy. I ask this because I will not make one myself; if I make a poor job and frazzy my PC as well - I would be a might bit upset! So if I can buy a PIC programmer then at least this potential problem is averted.

So what PicProgrammer should I buy? And are they all compatible with ALL languages and programming software?

 

[eblc1388]

You can also look at the Sticky post at the top of the "Microcontroller" section of this forum for additional information on PIC.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Okay Nigel, you are winning me over.

My first problem still applies however, which PIC programmer should I buy. I ask this because I will not make one myself; if I make a poor job and frazzy my PC as well - I would be a might bit upset! So if I can buy a PIC programmer then at least this potential problem is averted.

So what PicProgrammer should I buy? And are they all compatible with ALL languages and programming software?

Any language should produce a machine code HEX file, that's ALL a PIC understands, and any prgoramer should be able to load the HEX file and program the PIC.

The programming software is dependent on the particular programmer, altough some software is fairly configurable - but you need to ensure that the software you use works with the hardware you have.

As suggested, reading the 'sticky' will give you some clues.

 

[mramos1]

Spud. My thoughts.

You need to get a programmer to program a PIC no matter what. I have a P16PRO40, it was dirt cheap. I want an ICD2, but it is not required. This is all you need to program a PIC.

Then, download winpicprog from Nigel's website to program the PICs with your
programer (you will need parts for what you are making as well; LCD display, PICS, etc.). Get the programmer in kit form to lower the cost and build it.

I know they look from simple to complex when you search, but you are looking at development boards as well and simple programmers, it takes very little to program the PIC. You just need a programmer. This way you can use it for future projects, rather than tie the expensive board to you project.

Build the programmer kit, good practice.

Now you lack a curcuit and program. If you like the Stamp, then you need to see if MELabs demo will give you enough lines of code, or you need to buy the $99 version (Standard BASIC), or like Nigel said, learn assembler. I have not seen your application or know you so I would think BASIC would be easier as a guess.

Last, you need a circuit. If you have done the above, read the LCD tutorial on Nigel's site, built that part of the circuit (maybe at this point ASM is OK for you and you save $99). Hold off on the compiler until you get here.

You then come back to the forum and tell everyone what you have and still need to finish interfacing it to you target system.

Hope that helps.