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Showing ID when buying GOLD ???

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Frosty_47

New Member
Hello, I was shocked when I found out that most places that sell Gold/Silver ask for identification even if you pay in cash. I mean showing your ID to them is like saying "Hey come and rob me". Can gold be purchased in Canada without presenting your ID ?
 

HarveyH42

Banned
Hello, I was shocked when I found out that most places that sell Gold/Silver ask for identification even if you pay in cash. I mean showing your ID to them is like saying "Hey come and rob me". Can gold be purchased in Canada without presenting your ID ?
Is ID required every where you buy gold or silver? Would guess it's to protect the seller, since it's a high dollar market. How do they know you aren't looking to rob or scam them? Is your money real, and yours to spend. Hiding something from somebody? Drug money, protection money, kidnapping, robbery? I'd be a little concerned about somebody handing a large quantity of cash, even more for other paper and plastic payments.
 

Frosty_47

New Member
Is ID required every where you buy gold or silver? Would guess it's to protect the seller, since it's a high dollar market. How do they know you aren't looking to rob or scam them? Is your money real, and yours to spend. Hiding something from somebody? Drug money, protection money, kidnapping, robbery? I'd be a little concerned about somebody handing a large quantity of cash, even more for other paper and plastic payments.
How does that concern someone as a dealer? When you buy a large LCD TV with good surround sound worth more than two grand, the store never asks for any ID. Why should silver (worth only $15 an ounce) or Gold (worth around $850 an ounce) be any different? Oh is it because it doesn't loose its value? I doubt the seller is too concerned where or how you "obtained your money". Their job is to trade not verify my income. If they feel suspicious about someone (like someone coming in with a LOT of Cash) they can contact the police and let them deal with it. I am not one of those people that come in with a lot of cash and buy thousand dollars worth of metal. All I want to know if it's legal for them to ask for my ID and do I have the right to buy Silver/Gold without presenting my ID? (Legally I mean)

Thanks

By the way, It is highly ilegal to for a salesman to ask for your home address or any other form of ID other than the gun license when you purchase amunition. SO why should silver/gold be any different ?

Oh and how do they know you are not looking to scam them? Um they have sophisticatted machines that check the gold and money on the spot at no extra cost. So I doubt you will be able to get away trying to scam them. More like they will SCAM YOU!
 
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dknguyen

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
By the way, It is highly ilegal to for a salesman to ask for your home address or any other form of ID other than the gun license when you purchase amunition. SO why should silver/gold be any different?
THere is no right to own gold and silver like there is a right to bear arms, at least for the US. Is it illegal in Canada too to ask for ID when buying ammunition? I don't see why it is, nor have I ever heard anything like that. That sounds much more like an American thing, but it seems that some places in the US ID you to buy ammo, while others don't do anything at all.

How does that concern someone as a dealer? When you buy a large LCD TV with good surround sound worth more than two grand, the store never asks for any ID. Why should silver (worth only $15 an ounce) or Gold (worth around $850 an ounce) be any different? Oh is it because it doesn't loose its value?
I would think that's exactly why. Two words...money laundering. I'd like to see you do that with a large screen LCD TV. That's how it's different.

I doubt the seller is too concerned where or how you "obtained your money". Their job is to trade not verify my income. If they feel suspicious about someone (like someone coming in with a LOT of Cash) they can contact the police and let them deal with it.
Most businesses don't want the government coming after tham for laundering money. So they're suppose to call in everyone suspicous? And risk being held accountable by the launderers because they were singled out? Or risk not calling in an unsuspicous person who is actually a launderer and get in trouble for it later on? Or they can just check the ID of every single person walking in and at least say they did something.

Makes sense to me.
 
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kchriste

New Member
Forum Supporter
Hello, I was shocked when I found out that most places that sell Gold/Silver ask for identification even if you pay in cash.
To find out why, type FDR GOLD into Google. :eek:
 

JimB

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
Prevention of money laundering.

Same reason you have to show your passport when changing currency at the airport.

JimB
 

microtexan

New Member
Buying Gold

I would think the picture id's of Hamilton, Jackson, Franklin and Grant ought to be good enough!!!:confused::eek:
 

Frosty_47

New Member
To find out why, type FDR GOLD into Google. :eek:
Yup that’s true. It happened than it will probably happen again. That is probably the real reason they ask for your ID...It's funny how some people in here worry about "money laundering" when a simple check on the machines (and they always check) can clearly differentiate between "real money" and laundered. Further, money launderers register businesses and write off their “income” that way (no need to buy gold which will show an obvious income level)...

So there you have it people, I totally agree with kchriste on this one...
 

Frosty_47

New Member
I would think that's exactly why. Two words...money laundering. I'd like to see you do that with a large screen LCD TV. That's how it's different.


Most businesses don't want the government coming after tham for laundering money. So they're suppose to call in everyone suspicous? And risk being held accountable by the launderers because they were singled out? Or risk not calling in an unsuspicous person who is actually a launderer and get in trouble for it later on? Or they can just check the ID of every single person walking in and at least say they did something.

Makes sense to me.

Um what will stop me from buying a TV ?

Further, silver/gold dealers always check your money on the machine that can clearly differentiate if the money is laundered. FDR Gold sounds like the real reason the government wants to know who is buying gold...
 

dknguyen

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
Yup that’s true. It happened than it will probably happen again. That is probably the real reason they ask for your ID...It's funny how some people in here worry about "money laundering" when a simple check on the machines (and they always check) can clearly differentiate between "real money" and laundered. Further, money launderers register businesses and write off their “income” that way (no need to buy gold which will show an obvious income level)...

So there you have it people, I totally agree with kchriste on this one...
Of course you agree- you're ignoring what you don't agree with because it is an inconvenience versus and you are giving exclusive merit to explanations that would be most convenient . First, no, machines cannot tell the difference between "real" money and laundred money because laundered money is real money. Organized crime which launders money regularily might set up businesses fronts to do the job...but what happens if you are a small-time robber? Or a one-timer? You aren't going to open up your own business to front your money laundering.

Further, silver/gold dealers always check your money on the machine that can clearly differentiate if the money is laundered. FDR Gold sounds like the real reason the government wants to know who is buying gold...
I don't think you know what money laundering is. Laundering money has more to do with paperwork accounting for where the money came from rather than with the actual money itself. You cannot differentiate money gained by illegal activities and money gained from legal means using a machine. You are confusing drug/robbery money with marked bills and counterfeit bills which can be differentiated using machines.

Um what will stop me from buying a TV ?
You're missing the point. Nothing will stop you from buying a TV, but it is a difficult to find second-hand buyers for your TV no matter how new it is, let alone getting back what you originally paid for it. This is a lot easier with gold or silver. After the sale, you can trace the money you now have back to the sale of the TV/gold/silver whereas before you just had the the money which was originally used to buy the TV/gold/silver which might have seemingly come from nowhere with no traceable origin (ie. illegal activities).
 
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HarveyH42

Banned
Democrat always seem to be taking something... Anyway, just gave my opinion, I don't have much of hoard, maybe a dozen or so silver dollars, couple pounds of quarters, some dimes. Not much gold, couple of chains... Still, if the money was dirty, but still real, wouldn't the machine still say it's okay, but the police or FBI come in and say it was evidence in a crime. They would take the bills, but who would end up with them later. If they came from a bank robbery, would the bank be out the cash, or the gold seller. Forgot you are in Canada, polar bears and penguins... We have a lot of high dollar crime in America, probably don't see much up there. Anyway, are paper money have unique numbers on them, serial numbers. Easy enough to keep trak of, if you need to. Oh yeah, our quarters work in vending machines, unlike Canadian coins. :)
 

SPDCHK

Member
Is it illegal in Canada too to ask for ID when buying ammunition? I don't see why it is, nor have I ever heard anything like that. That sounds much more like an American thing, but it seems that some places in the US ID you to buy ammo, while others don't do anything at all.
In South Africa with it's tough gun control laws, you need to show your ID, as well as your gun permit, and your Competency certificate before you will be allowed to buy ammo. And then your only allowed to have 200 rounds MAX for any handgun. Bit of a pain when you do shooting range shooting as a sport. :mad:
 

kchriste

New Member
Forum Supporter
The popular laundering method up here is to use casinos. The newer machines that take cash directly make it fairly easy to deposit your dirty money, play for a few $, and then cash out with clean money, all while jumping up and down because you "won". It took a while, but the RCMP, CSIS, etc have finally cottoned on to this and are watching the casinos much more closely because of it.
 
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bigkim100

Banned
By the way, It is highly ilegal to for a salesman to ask for your home address or any other form of ID other than the gun license when you purchase amunition. SO why should silver/gold be any different ?

QUOTE]

Actually, Frosty it is NOT illegal to ASK for your name and address. It IS illegal to insist on this info, or the sale will not go through.
Back when there were Radio Shacks in Canada there was a bruhaha when a few shoppers became irate when the stores insisted on gathering this info with every sale, or the sale wouldnt go through...even if it was for a .79 cent battery. After a lot of negative press, the final outcome was that they would still ask, but the info was not absolutely required.
I still remember the news progams looking into the laws regarding the legality of asking for this info, and ultimatly it was found that within Canadian law it is not illegal to ask for, or gather this info, as long as it is given freely. OF COURSE, THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE THAT STILL DO THIS...just try to rent a Hotel Room, or a car without providing all this info....but who are you going to compalain to?????.
Gathering and STORING goverment generated info, such as social security numbers, OHIP Numbers, Drivers licence numbers, etc., is generally not considered legal. Technically, even Doctors are not allowed to collect OHIP numbers which is why a card is required to be shown at the start of each visit....but some doctors still do.
(This is one of the few times having a brother that is a lawyer, and a wife that is a Doctor... comes in handy).
 
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Sceadwian

Banned
I don't know about Hotel Rooms, but in the states at least Car rentals have different laws I think.
 

bigkim100

Banned
Scead....what bubble have you been living in?
Just TRY to rent a car, Hotel or Motel room...or hell...even rent a DVD at Blockbuster without your full name, address, and a piece of ID that backs up this info.
 

Sceadwian

Banned
I've rented a car recently, the laws are different for some situations, you can generally call back and request that they remove your information afterward. Just look up the applicable laws and record every interaction if it worries you. Companies violating personal information storage laws face serious fines. Generally all it takes is one call to a supervisor. Recording conversations is a good idea, it's easy to do and you'll generally make the active manager wet himself tripping over your every demand if you push it. Depends on your state laws though, New York state law doesn't require notification of 1st party voice recordings under some conditions. Those warnings they play on company automated voice systems are just blanket disclaimers depending on your location.
 
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sleekyG

New Member
I really don't think that it is necessary to have or show an ID when buying a gold. Unless the country or the government isn't sure about their economic security. :( Well it's just a safety measure for them.
 

HarveyH42

Banned
I still believe it has some to do with where and how much gold. Couple of hundred for a gold chain, probably not. $10,000 in bullion I would think so. The seller must have some rights to protect himself, since the guys with money tend to have a lot of influence of the laws in this country. I don't buy gold myself, but it seems unreasonable that a business owner has no rights on setting policy for his store. The consumer can always shop some place else.

I do understand that somebody hording gold, doesn't want anyone to know the who and where, for fear of being hunted down and robbed of his stash. But, I'd guess they would also be paranoid of the seller following them to the stash, taking the gold, and reselling it to the next... No record that you actually bought or own gold...
 

Sceadwian

Banned
If governments had to pay in real materially linked wealth for all their outstanding debt it would bankrupt quiet a few countries.
 
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