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sensor for rapid eye movement..

Thread starter #1
gud day.. we have a project and it's about Rapid Eye Movement.. i'm having a problem on what sensor we can use for this..any suggestions? any thing will do.. thank you in advance..
 
Thread starter #3
we need to know the eye movement of a person during sleep.. so we need a sensor that can be used to detect eye movement given that the person wearing the device will feel comfortable during sleep..
 

Pommie

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#5
I've been thinking about this and the only way I can think of to detect REM is by using reflective eye makeup and have a series of IR transmitter/receivers in a circle with the person on the axis of the circle. One of the receivers should pick up a pulsing signal that would indicate REM.

Mike.
 

ClydeCrashKop

Well-Known Member
#6
Assuming the persons eyes will be closed, one of those 3-D acceleration chips attached to the eyelid should give some output.
 

Pommie

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#7
ClydeCrashKop said:
Assuming the persons eyes will be closed, one of those 3-D acceleration chips attached to the eyelid should give some output.
Why not just super glue a matchstick to the eyeball and have done with it. The second matchstick propping the eyelid open would interact with the first to produce a detectable clicking sound.:D :D

Mike.
 

Gordz

New Member
#8
You may be able to detect REM by using SMD IR LED/PT pair installed into a sleeping mask like they use on 'planes. The sensor should detect the refraction differential between the pupil (which will be fully dialated) and the white of the eye through the thin skin of the eye-lid. Blood glucose sensors use an IR and visible red LED combination in a similar way by using a PIN diode to detect the light transmitted through the finger/ear lobe or whatever..
 
#10
Hi. I hope someone can help. I have bought a R.E.M. dreamer mask which has 2 led lights and an infrared detector which detects eye movement during REM. I’m a little concerned that the infrared detector could damage the eye in some way as I’m sleeping with this detector thing bouncing off my eye all night.


are these infrared detectors safe or could they cause long term damage. I’m not too clued up about radiation or infrared so please excuse my lack of knowledge


the mask is called remdreamer and an be found at www.remdreamer.com


many thanks everyone
 

jpanhalt

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#11
Hi. I hope someone can help. I have bought a R.E.M. dreamer mask which has 2 led lights and an infrared detector which detects eye movement during REM. I’m a little concerned that the infrared detector could damage the eye in some way as I’m sleeping with this detector thing bouncing off my eye all night.
If you are concerned, don't use it. What sort of evidence would you accept that it is not dangerous? Clue: you can only prove it is dangerous. You cannot prove it is safe.

What do you mean by "long-term damage?" Is that 24-h per day x 365 days x 80 years or something less? What is the LED wavelength and power at the emitted wavelength?

BTW, this thread is more than 10 years old. It is probable the OP is no longer interested in our opinions. Perhaps, you should ask your own question?
 

Pommie

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#12
There is IR everywhere, sunlight contains lots, your TV remote uses it, the heat you feel from an open fire is IR. We can't see it because we don't have any receptors. Unless it's some kind of laser I can't see how it can cause damage.

Mike.
 

jpanhalt

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#13
There is IR everywhere, sunlight contains lots, your TV remote uses it, the heat you feel from an open fire is IR. We can't see it because we don't have any receptors. Unless it's some kind of laser I can't see how it can cause damage.

Mike.
You can't see it and it (IR) can cause damage. Talk to any welder. Your logic is flawed.

Nevertheless, I suspect the level used for REM are to low to do that.

John
 

Pommie

Well-Known Member
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#14
I think arc eye is caused by UV, same as sunburn which I've had many times when welding without gloves.

Mike.
 

JimB

Super Moderator
Most Helpful Member
#16
How about a sensitive strain gauge or piezo vibration sensor taped to the subject's temples near the eyes?
There are some of us who find it difficult to go to sleep at the best of times.

All instrumented up like a cyborg? No chance.

JimB
 

jpanhalt

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#17
I think arc eye is caused by UV, same as sunburn which I've had many times when welding without gloves.
Mike.
I was not referring to "arc eye." Arc eye is a painful condition and is usually attributed to acute UV damage primarily on the cornea. UV does not penetrate the eye nearly as well as IR does (https://www.ishn.com/articles/103728-all-about-welders-flash-or-arc-eye ), and its effects on the cornea are largely reversible. Welders are also subject to the more lasting and damaging effects of IR, which is what I was referring to.

I was specifically referring to your statement that IR is everywhere, we don't have receptors to it, and unless it is from a laser it is not dangerous. That logic is dangerously wrong. IR can be dangerous, even more so than UV, specifically because we don't have receptors to it, and it can penetrate the eye to the retina. Since it is not sensed, protective mechanisms such as provided by the iris and blinking do not respond to it. Unlike damage to the outer epithelial layers of the eye caused by UV, IR can cause permanent retinal damage. Even infrared at diagnostic intensities can cause retinal damage (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1414701 ).

Below is an illustration of eye penetration by various wavelengths of light:
Capture.PNG
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144654/

Since these responses are to a hijacked thread, my comments apply to Terry4444's post about using red lights and near infrared. Albeit, he doesn't say near IR specifically, but given the set-up he describes, I think that is a reasonable assumption. In looking for citations I found an application note from Intersil specifically on how to calculate risk from IRED's: https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an17/an1737.pdf

John
 

Pommie

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#18
I should have realized that IR can indeed damage eyes at the right intensity. I was thinking of something more akin to the IR LED in your remote.

Mike.
 

jpanhalt

Well-Known Member
Most Helpful Member
#19
Unfortunately Terry4444 has not given sufficient details to know how he plans to do it. Last time I had anything to do with a sleep lab, it was using surface electrodes. One might consider using near IR cameras or even longer IR thermal imaging with time-lapse exposures.

If Terry4444 is proposing detecting IR reflection from the sclera, I suspect normal body movements during sleep would complicate staying focused on the eye. I don't think it is a good idea to focus any light on the pupil of a sleeping person for long periods.
 
#20
All instrumented up like a cyborg? No chance.
Well, maybe, just maybe, the person doing this experiment isn't thusly afflicted. Besides, going to bed with one piece of tape on you forehead is hardly "instrumented up like a cyborg."
Ever go to bed with a Bandaid on?
Sleep clinics do all that and more.
 

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