Rude Response = Wasted Response

[ThermalRunaway]

I admit I can be a bit rude sometimes but you're far too nice ThermalRunaway. I used to be like you (well I went even further by designing circuits for people) a few years ago when I posted on another forum then I felt that some of the posters were taking advantage so I changed my attitude.

Oh, so now you're admitting to the negative attitude??

The reason you don't see me posting "rude" responses is not necessarily because I don't feel the same as you. There are those who post here expecting that you will do their entire project or coursework for them which you could argue is rude in itself and deserves an equally rude response. Personally, I'm choosing to ignore such posts. There is no point in contributing to a thread unless you feel you can contribute positively, and for that reason alone I would always object to a rude attitude in any thread.

I am also worried that the backlash from the people who take advantage does occasionally spill over onto newbies who in their first posts ask quite valid (if misguided) questions.

That's my take on it anyway.

Brian

 

[Hank Fletcher]

I gotta go with ThermalRunaway on this one. If you don't want to contribute to someone's posting, just ignore it. Don't take it upon yourself to police the Internet, leave it to the moderators to decide what's appropriate or not for their respective forums (fori?). I've seen Hero999's attempts to accept the onus himself (herself?), but when you post a comment trying to set someone, in your mind, straight, it'll tend to happen that someone else will choose to provide an answer anyway.

As someone who hasn't enjoyed the benefit of formal electrical engineering training, personally I find the discussion of electrical/electronics class projects entertaining and informative - infotainment, if you will. So I guess I do take issue with anyone who attempts to censor my opportunity to learn or enjoy more in this area through this particular medium.

If you don't like it, ignore it. I don't use that kind of passivity in my approach to all things, but in this context I think it's the best. Trust me, teachers know who the cheaters are, and those who try to shortchange themselves in any aspect of life invariably reap what they sow.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,
Brian and Hank have my full support.

If you feel you cannot say something helpful or useful, I cannot see any point in buzzing from post to post, like a mosquito on speed biting everyone.

If you don't like a post, ignore it.

Regards

 

[Hero999]

Oh, so now you're admitting to the negative attitude??

Only to those who can't be bothered.

There are those who post here expecting that you will do their entire project or coursework for them which you could argue is rude in itself and deserves an equally rude response. Personally, I'm choosing to ignore such posts.

I have thought about that, but then I decided that it isn't fair on the other members especially when people here bend over backwards to help them and they don't get any thanks. I would rather tell the origional poster to either think about making an effort or leaving, then at least they have the chance to at least make an attempt.

There is no point in contributing to a thread unless you feel you can contribute positively, and for that reason alone I would always object to a rude attitude in any thread.

I see discouraging people from asking for everying on a plate as a positive thing.

I am also worried that the backlash from the people who take advantage does occasionally spill over onto newbies who in their first posts ask quite valid (if misguided) questions.

Nubes shouln't be put off. I do not think any of my canned responses are in any way rude or encouraging. I've highlighted the encouraging parts of my post in red.

We don't mind helping you but we won't do all of the work for you. Please post what you've already done including any ideas you've had and we might be able to make some suggestions. If you've got completely no idea then may be it's your lecuturer's fault and it isn't right that you make him/her look good by cheating and copying from the Internet.

Often a thread like this becomes productive after my default response. If I and the other people here had ignored their post then the thread would have not had amounted to anything.

I'm often rude to people, after I've helped them, to make a point. For example if someone asks for the datasheet for a 2N2222A transistor, I'll say don't be lazy use Google. The way I see it is I've given them both help and support and a a stern talking to so hopefully next time they'll make some effort.

The bottom line is:

• If people ask for all the work to be done for them I'll encourage them to either make an effort or leave.
• If people make duplicate threads then I'll discourage them from doing so and explain to them that it does not help them or us to help them.
• If people post a question then come back an hour later wondering why they haven't received a response then I'll encourage them to be patient and not give up hope and (if appropriate) I'll encourage them to provide them more information.

The way I see it, is I'm not just here to help people with their electronics problems but also to help them use this forum as effectively. I'd just rather cut straight to the point rather than messing around.

 

[HarveyH42]

I still think it's a rude and inappropriate way to greet a new member on their first post. Speaking english and writing it are two different things, might have taken some effort just to get that first post word to atleast make some sense.

The best thing is to just be civil if you choose to reply, you aren't obligated to get involved. Double posts... The moderator does a very good job of keeping things clean, the duplicates will be removed and the member reprimanded/banned as needed. Not really our concern.

If a new member does make a bad first post, it's better they learn from the example of other threads, and leave the mistake in the past, rather then be attacked and ridiculed for it.

I can understand that some people will give just on chance, and then lock into that very first impression. Some are highly opinionated or terratorial, but the great thing about being human, is to learn from our mistakes...

 

[Hero999]

Double posts... The moderator does a very good job of keeping things clean, the duplicates will be removed and the member reprimanded/banned as needed. Not really our concern.

I haven't seen Nigel reprimand anyone for a duplicate post but that's probably because I get there before him.

Anyway, I disagree, duplicate threads are everone's responsibility, if you see one then you should report it to the moderator.

If a new member does make a bad first post, it's better they learn from the example of other threads, and leave the mistake in the past, rather then be attacked and ridiculed for it.

But we ignore it and there is a risk that it might be a genuine question?

I still think it's a good idea to respond to such a post in an appropriet manner. If you think my canned "do your own work post" is rude then could you please rephase it.

There again if it is obvious that they do not have any intention of making any effort then is it such a bad thing if they do not return? Perhaps we are better off without them.

From now on, I'm going to ask whether it's college work before I post my usual canned response.

Either way, even if it isn't college work, it still goes against my principles doing someone's entire project for them.

 

[ThermalRunaway]

Either way, even if it isn't college work, it still goes against my principles doing someone's entire project for them.

It goes against mine as well. Infact it not only goes against my principals, but to be honest I can't be bothered wasting my time with someone's project/coursework/whatever unless they can show that they're putting in effort their end. I think we're on the same wavelength in that respect, and as I said earlier I don't disagree with the reasons for your rude posts... just the rude posts themselves.

That said, I'm not here to try and stop you being rude to them. It's your forum as much as mine, so dip your bread. Normally I ignore any post which I believe is a waste of my time, and that includes any "rude" posts you may have made. We're both in agreement that the thread doesn't deserve a positive response, the difference is you then choose to make a negative one, where as I choose no response at all.
There was one occasion where we had a little (heated?) discussion though, and the reason for that was I believed the newbie had asked a very valid question, had explained the basic problem very well considering English was not his first language, and he had even provided graphical drawings of what he was trying to do which was enough to convince me that he was genuine in what he was trying to do, was willing to make some effort himself, and I felt that the thread deserved a positive response. Your response was less than positive, and hence why we clashed a little on that.

My point is that there is the potential to be rude to someone who didn't actually deserve it, and hence my previous concern regarding the anger which is being directed at time-wasters can occasionally spill over onto genuine newbies who perhaps haven't phrased their question very well, or haven't quite provided enough information, or accidentally duplicated their post (etc etc) but actually were genuine people with valid and interesting Electronics related questions.

Brian

 

[ThermalRunaway]

I still think it's a rude and inappropriate way to greet a new member on their first post. Speaking english and writing it are two different things, might have taken some effort just to get that first post word to atleast make some sense.

I work with a guy like that. It's absolutely mad because he's an intelligent guy, he's a good Engineer, and he's very knowledgable. But when it comes to putting his ideas down on paper, he just can't hack it. If he tries to type it all out, it ends up looking like a child wrote it and that can come across as very slack to the end reader. His writing certainly does not reflect his ability though, I can assure you of that!

We actually work well together because I have the opposite problem - I hate telephones. He can explain things in person or over the phone very well, so he does all the phone calls for me and I do all the emails/letters for him!

Going back to your original point though you're absolutely right. Not all of us are gifted with a natural ability to put ideas across in writing very well. My colleague (and friend) certainly can't, and it would take him a lot of effort indeed if he were to attempt it. He knows that he's lacking in ability in this area, so I can only imagine that his confidence would be dashed even more if someone were to ridicule his post.

Brian

 

[Sceadwian]

Subjugating the ego for increased communication is something just about every living human being has a problem with. We all are our own King's (or Queen's) so to speak and hate the idea of giving another's idea, decision, or even thought any leeway over our own exact viewpoint. ANY viewpoint which belittles even the most idiotic of statements is only out to increase it's own ego image in the eyes of others. Any 'good' or 'decent' and intelligent person will struggle their entire life with learning to say I'm sorry, you have a point, or I am wrong. And even just as long figuring out that "Why do you feel or think that way" is almost always a good response to defuse a hostile situation, and that attacking attackers is never a proper thing to do, under ANY circumstances regardless of any perceived right or wrong.

People that speak specifically to encourage these types of arguments are in the IRC terms I'm used to hearing called trolls.

I'm currently in the process of teaching my 10 year old step-son (the wedding is in three months at least) these same basic principles that he will encounter in every day for the rest of his life. Most people here are older than 10 and haven't even come close to understanding a fraction of what he knew before I was even around.

ALWAYS be polite, always concede your viewpoints aren't always correct and discuss the others viewpoints, and your own whenever possible. If no consensus can be made after a few volleys of conversation none will be made over a long drawn out tirade. After that simply state your own basic viewpoint with simple and concise information and walk away. Kind of like my first and last post in this thread.
Any attempt to prove any viewpoint ultimately correct is going to fail completely.

 

[HarveyH42]

I understand the frustration of the constant request/demands for projects and homework answers, but you can't make that call from a single post. Certainly doesn't any verbal abuse. We are all reasonably intelligent people here, it's not difficult to figure which posts are just pleas for quick answers to assignments.

If the post is something of interest, ask some questions, from the response you can decide whether they deserve 'canned-response', or further involvement.

I don't mind help anybody out if I can, just expect some initial effort. This just my thoughts, we are all different, just as the new members. Can one response really cover all?

 

[gramo]

There has to be some sort of filtering, and Hero999 is doing a great job!

(My rant)

First of all, to those people that post ridiculous first posts - clearly you know how to use Google/Yahoo/Whatever (You found Electro-Tech somehow!!), so why not start there with your key question! Thanks Hero999 for saving me the effort of suggesting the same thing!

Generic questions with no specific tasking/problem involved is really pointless. We (the readers) can't guide you if you haven’t guided your question! Thanks Hero999 for suggesting to so many threads to elaborate!

BIG COLORFUL LETTERS do not increase your chances of a response, for me they simply invoke an instantaneous reaction to start randomly clicking any "X" or close buttons repetitively!

Multiple posts has been covered..

(end rant)


But - All this said, its a public forum, everyone is entitled to personal opinions, they are like A**Holes, everyone’s got em, NO one wants to hear about them. Application suggestions/support on the other hand is (in my mind) what this site (community) is about

Starting personal opinion threads like this is just pointless, Hero999 is doing a bloody great job and is helping out thousands (if not millions) of people, and doing the "dirty work" for us at the same time

Good on ya Hero999

 

[mneary]

We love to help, but we need to know how far you've come. Please post what you've already done including any ideas you've had. If you need help that your lecturer should have provided, please tell us (and your lecturer) what you found was lacking.

If this is for your self-guided education, it would help us to know more about your education, geographical location, and experience with the English Language.

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,
>> Starting personal opinion threads like this is just pointless, Hero999 is doing a bloody great job and is helping out thousands (if not millions) of people, and doing the "dirty work" for us at the same time

I dont want 'hero' or anyone else doing the 'dirty work' in my name!
Whatever 'hero' decides to comment on a OP, thats his personal opinion, not mine.

If I have got something to say I will say it in my own way, first hand, not by proxy.

If you dont like an OP's question, just ignore it.

pwotooles post explains it well. REF: Feedback Section
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/about-feedback-and-comments.29810/

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I haven't seen Nigel reprimand anyone for a duplicate post but that's probably because I get there before him.

That's because they have been deleted before you spot them, and I PM the offender! - apart from the ones where you report them first.

 

[Hero999]

As someone who hasn't enjoyed the benefit of formal electrical engineering training, personally I find the discussion of electrical/electronics class projects entertaining and informative - infotainment, if you will.

That has never been my intention.

I also enjoy helping people with their college work but there's a difference between providing assistance and doing it for them.

Starting personal opinion threads like this is just pointless

I disagree, I like to hear people's oppinions and will accept constructive critism.

I have decided to continue to make canned responses to bad threads in the hope that they might develop into useful discussions. However I have listened to everyone's opinions and have reviewed all of my responses.

Impatient poster who whines about not having any replies after less than a few days
It can some times take a few of days for someone to reply to a thread. Please try to be more patient, if you don't receive a reply within a week then try bumping the original thread by making an additional post with more information about what you are trying to do.

If you don't receive any replies to a thread then please don't take it personally. For all you know people might not actually know the answer but it's far more likely that you haven't provided enough information.

Duplicate thread
Please do not make duplicate posts or threads, they do not increase your chance of a helpful response but only reduce it, as people get confused and can't always see what others have suggested in the other thread(s).

If you have made this post or thread in error then please do not be offended. We get lots of people making duplicate threads under the misapprehension that it will increase their chance of a helpful response when in practice the reverse is true.

I did consider stopping using the duplicate thread response but I've decided to continiue to do so as it makes life easier for Nigel. If they see my response they might not make another thread on the same topic and Nigel won't have to bother deleting yet another thread or sending them a private message.

Possible lazy student post - thanks mneary I've expanded on your idea.
Whilst we enjoy helping people; in order to help you we need to know how far you've progressed. Please post what you've already done, including any ideas you've had. If you need help that your lecturer should have provided, please tell us (and your lecturer) what you found was lacking. It is not right if you manage to attain a high grade from the help we have provided if your lecturer is negligent; it will make them appear to be better than they really are and put you at an unfair advantage to your classmates.

It also would help us to know more about your education, geographical location and experience with the English language.

Is that any better?
Please tell me what you think.

 

[HarveyH42]

Have yoy considered that our forum also comes up in Google results? Even non-members and potential new members get to see how you respond to these posts. It's not a good representation of what this forum has to offer. For the one parasitic college student you turn away, how many beginners choose to keep looking else where, because this is the image you give our forum? I only ask that you show a little tolerance and patience for first time posts. One post shouldn't automatical label an individual as bad, it's almost the same problem as racisim here in America. You can't determine a person's charactor from what you first see, and isn't right to believe that all of a similar appearance are of the same mentality. It's a tough thing to resist, nobody is perfect.

 

[Hero999]

Have yoy considered that our forum also comes up in Google results? Even non-members and potential new members get to see how you respond to these posts. It's not a good representation of what this forum has to offer. For the one parasitic college student you turn away, how many beginners choose to keep looking else where, because this is the image you give our forum?

I hope they do find this thread in Google before they consider joining and if they had the maturity and objectivity to see things from our perspective, if not then perhaps it's a good thing if they decide not to join.

I only ask that you show a little tolerance and patience for first time posts. One post shouldn't automatical label an individual as bad, it's almost the same problem as racisim here in America. You can't determine a person's charactor from what you first see, and isn't right to believe that all of a similar appearance are of the same mentality. It's a tough thing to resist, nobody is perfect.

Now your really are talking crap!

Why lower the tone and bring race in to it? That's the oldest cop out in the book.

There is a big difference between judging people from what they say and their apperance; I don't have too much or a problem with the former but I do the latter.

I agree that we shouldn't totally judge someone by their first post but first impressions do matter and this applies to both parties.

I used to respect your opinion but I no longer care what you think; you're giving me far too much of this.

**broken link removed**

 

[HarveyH42]

Race was just the closest example I could think of, just an example. You see something you don't intially like and go on the attack. You belittle and alienate those that don't meet your expectations. From most of these first time post you attack, there is no indication of location, language, age, or experience. Usually not even enough information to determine what is being requested by the new member. Instead of wasting your time verbally abusing unsuspecting victims, why not waste your time asking question, gather more information first. Takes the same effort and much more productive, a lot less embarassment for the group.

In the Electronics Forums you should stick to ELECTRONICS. The moderators will decide what is appropriate, and make the correction. There is an icon in the lower left of every post, where you can report problems you have with it.
Nigel does a fantastic job, and seldom leaves a trace of many things he fixes. Can't expect him or any other moderator to catch everything in real-time, but they are quick to put things right, and privately. Have you consider using PMs instead of public humiliation to get your message across? Or do you need an audience?

 

[Hero999]

All I can say is I'm glad you're not a moderator. I've left a forum because a moderator was, like youself, always jumping to the conclusion that I was bullying and harrasing people rather reality I was helping them and encouraging them to provide as much inrformation as possible so we can help them. In reality he was the only bully so I told him to shuve it an left never to be seen again.

Don't worry, I won't be leaving this forum, you're not worth it!

Bringing racism into it was pretty low, we are talking about replying to posts in a forum which has nothing to do with race so why bring it up?

EDIT:
I have already admited that some of my canned responses could be misconstrued as rude and have ammended them and promised to try and be a bit more tactful in future so what's your problem?

Why not leave it a week or two , then if you still have a problem bring it up then?

I will not respond to you again unless you have something sensible to say.

 

[HarveyH42]

Well, guess this thread is pretty much done, think I got my point across. Just want to clarify the racism remark that set you off, hope you read this part more carefully. Race has nothing to do with anything (the point I wanted to convey). The premise that all similar looking post, will be exactly as in the past is wrong.
Just because a new member poorly states his question in the very first post, doesn't mean he deserves to be treated poorly. You need to treat each individually, there should be no instantaneus or automatic response. If you don't like a post, don't get involved. There are hundreds of people who might be interested in helping out.

It's not your responsablity to police the forums, the moderators do that very well. Have they requested your help? Do they appreciate your efforts. Does this give you a sense of importance and power?

Sure some posts are annoying, but hardly detrimental to the forum, and ignored usually disappear on their own. Your response to them just keeps the thread active, alienates new members, the OP and others who haven't posted yet. These is detrimental, as new members are what keeps this forum going with new ideas and information.