Recommend a Laser Printer ?

[tunedwolf]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about retiring my plotter in favour of a half decent Laser Printer for producing pcb artwork. Am I mad ?
I use a photgraphic process, and want to continue to do so. I haven't tried a Laser Printer to produce the artwork since about nineteen canteen when a 300dpi Laser just wouldn't look at a board layout. Will 600dpi cut it ? or will I really need 1200dpi ?
My budget is around £75.00 - £200

Any recommendations for make/model ?

tia

 

[Rolf]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about retiring my plotter in favour of a half decent Laser Printer for producing pcb artwork. Am I mad ?
I use a photgraphic process, and want to continue to do so. I haven't tried a Laser Printer to produce the artwork since about nineteen canteen when a 300dpi Laser just wouldn't look at a board layout. Will 600dpi cut it ? or will I really need 1200dpi ?
My budget is around £75.00 - £200

Any recommendations for make/model ?

tia

I can only tell you what is working great for me; the Konica Minolta PagePro 1350 and its is reasonable priced, at least here in the USA.

 

[mramos1]

I used a Brother 1440. I only use it in 600dpi mode and get great boards even with eagle cad's small defaults (I always forget to change them).

FYI: I have tested a ton of picture papers. A couple weeks ago found the only paper I will use in the future. Guess I will print pictures on the old picture paper to use all the paper up.

Get some Hammermill OfficeOne Business Gloss. It is not picture paper, but business laser paper with a shine on it. I would start with that. It takes less heat with the iron (I put tissue paper over it) and comes off with warm water in about 1-3 minutes and little or no scrubbing.

I print, turn on the iron, iron, soak paper and in about 10 minutes. Waiting on the iron is the dealy.

It used to be the transfer was as long as the etch and drill part, not now.

How that helps in you new venture. I meant to post this and just was too busy.

 

[spondootre]

I'm fairly new to photo etching but i've done a few small board and purchased a 600dpi laser to do it, it works OK for me but I think it would struggle on the larger more complex work with very thin tracks. Saying that though it may be down to the brand of transparencies I have used as some smudging occaisionally appears. The one I bought was a Samsung ML-1610, basically because it was the cheapest I could find new that had reasonably priced toners replacements.

edit :

This one cost me £69.99 toner cartridge (refilled professionally) £30

 

[tunedwolf]

Ok guys thanks for that...

I think what you're saying is that 600dpi barely does it justice...

I have been leaning towards the network version of the HP-LJ1022...what ya think ?

 

[philba]

clearly, a 1200 dpi will do better than a 600 dpi. However, 600 dpi is 1.6 mil. what are the minimum features you want to render? with toner transfer, you might get to 10 mil but I've found that a bit iffy. I usually go for 12 mil min and if space isn't an issue, run 16 mil traces.

Basically, a 600 dpi printer will work very well but if the cost of a 1200 isn't much more, I'd go for that. More importantly, I'd do a toner transfer test to see if the toner fusing point is low enough for home equipment.

 

[TekNoir]

I can only tell you what is working great for me; the Konica Minolta PagePro 1350 and its is reasonable priced, at least here in the USA.

I use this same printer with store brand transparencies from Office Depot. I typically print at 600dpi (though it supports 1200dpi) and it has always worked great.

 

[mramos1]

To avoid the smudge put tissue paper over it before you iron it. My wife has klenex in the room with the clothes iron. Also, press the iron on it and do not move it for 15 seconds or so. So the toner starts to stick (fuse).

Philba is right, higher res, thinner traces. But I have not tried the 1400 on mine yet as the 600 is very good. .016 is NO PROBLEM other than me soldering with the wrong tip sometimes.

The new Hammermill paper I found took all the pain out of the process (I had trouble finding laser transparent paper around my house). I wanted to try the transparent paper since no gloss to soak off. I was fixing a computer in an office and saw the shine (both sides) paper (can not load it wrong either; over picture paper that is) and asked to borrow a piece. I made 3 perfect fast boards with it. I at least found that works for me 100%.

Maybe I will try 1200 DPI just to see how thin I can go. But the ones I do now are thinner than I need.

Like to tring the clear plastic, but I wonder how the cost is over the hammermill paper. I did not pay for the 300 sheet pack, the guy I fixed the computer for gave me a pack and said I can take all I want.

 

[tunedwolf]

Hey all,

I couldn't find a Minolta 1350 locally to have a play with, or try any test print on, so I finally settled on the HP 1022, primarily because of warranty and availability of spares etc. As a general use printer, on paper the output is great, nice and crisp using 600dpi.

I tried a few test board plots on cheap Transparancies from Staples, and the results were about 75-80% of the rock solid quality I was expecting, not bad overall, but I think I would need to print out a couple and pick the best one to contact print with. This of course could very easily be cheap media problems though, so I'll reserve final judgement until I splash out on some high end stuff to try with.

I also tried it on Polymer Film, which is what I would normally use on the plotter, and apart from a slight wrinkling due to the heat distortion, the output was impressive, I guess the toner fuses better to the film as it has a slight grain to it. So when I find a way to tease the wrinkles back out...I think that will be the way to go with it. Perhaps a slight warming again with a hairdrier or something will ease out the wrinkles.

I seen somewhere on the net, that decent quality Tracing Paper is even better than the Polymer Film, primarily because it is less susceptible to the wrinkle due to the heat. I have some, but haven't tried it, because after looking at it on the light box, I think it's too grainy, and the grain pattern will most likely be transferred at the contact print stage. I'll get some high end stuff and have a look.

The tests were done at 1200dpi. My initial conclusions are that it's not a bad printer, both for general use, and for plotting boards. I would say like most printers, media quality will play an important role in getting the results you want from it. For the money, I can't complain, it cost me less than £100
so was well within my budget, so what's left over, I'll dedicate to beer and better quality media

 

[spondootre]

Glad you got a good deal on your printer, let me know if you have any recommendations for good transparencies, I get cheap ones from a local stationary shop. They wrinkle with the heat, but I am usually only doing 4inch boards and the wrinkles flaten out with the weight of the glass plate. But if I needed to do a bigger board I think this would be an issue. Perhaps thicker transparencies would eliminate this problem.

 

[Rolf]

Hey all,

I couldn't find a Minolta 1350 locally to have a play with, or try any test print on, so I finally settled on the HP 1022, primarily because of warranty and availability of spares etc. As a general use printer, on paper the output is great, nice and crisp using 600dpi.

I think the 1350 has been replaced by the 1400.
Personally I think the Press-N-Peel is the way to go. After I got my iron set to the correct temperature it has been 100% successful every time.
I lay some old news paper (maybe 6 pages) down on an old cutting board and set my iron on it while it is heating. Then when I do the transfer the PCB is heated from both the top and bottom. Transfer time, three minutes at 300°F. Make sure you place a piece of paper over the Press-N-Peel, it makes the iron glide so much better.

 

[mramos1]

I use tissue or paper towel over transfer paper before I iron. But I use Officeone Business Gloss laser paper, not plastic transfer. Laser printer paper. In fact I gave all my picture paper away today, no reason for it now since I found the business gloss stuff. I am getting a couple more packs just to make sure they do not stop making it.
No shrinking as it is paper.

So far I have had one bad transfer and it was with no tissue over it and business gloss paper is glossy on both side (figuring out which way it goes in the printer). I think it grabbed the iron that one time.

And I have used press-n-peel, it is good, and was better than all the picture papers I had until now.

 

[Rolf]

I think the 1350 has been replaced by the 1400.
Personally I think the Press-N-Peel is the way to go. After I got my iron set to the correct temperature it has been 100% successful every time.
I lay some old news paper (maybe 6 pages) down on an old cutting board and set my iron on it while it is heating. Then when I do the transfer the PCB is heated from both the top and bottom. Transfer time, three minutes at 300°F. Make sure you place a piece of paper over the Press-N-Peel, it makes the iron glide so much better.

I do not like to have etching solution sitting around not knowing if it is going to do my next etch.
I use the one part Muriatic Acid / two part Hydrogen Peroxide mix. So I only mix what I use for the job at hand. For me this works, 1/2 cup etches 10sq inches. So I have a set of plastic measuering cups handy and only mix what I need, usualy 2/3 or one cup. It is cheap enough so I just nutrelize after the etch and dump it.

 

[tunedwolf]

I have used the photographic method for 20+ years, it kind of grew on me because I was working on all sorts of printing equipment and so forth, so it was just easier for me to use the cameras and film etc. I have tried the toner transfer method several times, but either obtained poor results, or just found it more labour intensive. I guess it really is what you're used to, I'm quite sure if I persisted with it, I would soon get the feel for it. The good side of the photographic process, is that if you carefully handle and store your artwork, you can produce as many boards from it as you wish. Or at least I can if I use the Plotter, cos the Polyester remains pretty stable for a good few years, time will tell if the LaserJet output will stand up to the same test...

 

[mramos1]

It took me a long time to get is to 5 minutes laser to ectant. The paper was most of the problem for me. Yea, once to iron it, that paper is done

I have sat for a hour scraping out that white photo film when I was tring to find the right paper.

 

[evandude]

I use an HP laserjet 1100 and it works great. 600 DPI and very compact. I bought it used on ebay for like $50, and bought a no-brand toner cartridge for it for $20-ish when the used one that came with it ran out after a few months. If you use your laser printer a lot, then you might be better off with a larger one, but if you use it only occasionally for boards, then a small one like this can be a benefit.