Programmers

[YAN-1]

Dear everyone,

Being new to this business, I am facing some trouble in picking a programmer to buy. I worked with the PIC start plus at the university and it was good. But I only seem to find 2 brands here: one that looks poorly made (it's on a PCB!) and another expensive one called 'BeeProg'. It is supposed to be good. Has any of you heard of it before?

I also have a stupid question: does the programmer affect the software to be used? I worked on MPLAB with the PIC start plus. Some people are even advising me to build my own programmer! Would that be a reliable solution?

 

[Jay.slovak]

Dear everyone,

Being new to this business, I am facing some trouble in picking a programmer to buy. I worked with the PIC start plus at the university and it was good. But I only seem to find 2 brands here: one that looks poorly made (it's on a PCB!) and another expensive one called 'BeeProg'. It is supposed to be good. Has any of you heard of it before?

I also have a stupid question: does the programmer affect the software to be used? I worked on MPLAB with the PIC start plus. Some people are even advising me to build my own programmer! Would that be a reliable solution?

The answer depends on your skills and budget. How would you rate your electronics skills?

 

[YAN-1]

i guess i'm ok but what does that have to do with what type of programmer to buy?

 

[Jay.slovak]

i guess i'm ok but what does that have to do with what type of programmer to buy?

Well, it depends if you want to BUY it or MAKE it youself...

 

[YAN-1]

well, suppose i decide to buy one. what programmer/software combinations exist? and does that affect what progrramming language i should use?

 

[Jay.slovak]

Does that affect what progrramming language i should use?

No, input to the programmers SW is usually HEX file (pure assembly).... I can't really help you with selecting one to buy, I never bought one (I made myself three programmers)... Maybe look for PICstart Plus or ICD2 (both microchips Products)

I assume you wanted PIC programmer....

 

[YAN-1]

i see. i guess i will build one if i can't find the PIC start plus. but if i build one, how can i still use MPLAB?

 

[Jay.slovak]

i see. i guess i will build one if i can't find the PIC start plus. but if i build one, how can i still use MPLAB?

Most of home-made PIC programmer are NOT supported by MPLAB (you can still use MPLAB for writting/simulating and export HEX to different SW) BUT there is ICD2 Clone available on Internet (I made one) that IS compatible with MPLAB...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

The assembler MPLAB uses is called MPASM, you can use either MPASM to assemble your code (as I do) or you can use MPLAB to call MPASM and do it for you.

In either case it produces a HEX file, you simply load this into your programmer software and program it into the chip.

There are a great many programmers about, to either buy or build yourself, most of them a great deal cheaper than the MicroChip offerings. But the MicroChip ones have the advantage of new devices being added more quickly - plus the advantage (if you think it's one?) of integration with MPLAB.

 

[plot]

all the programmers i use, use pony programmer ( )... alot of programmers you can purchase can use this software.

All you do is import a .HEX file (which... every uC compiler i've ever seen produces. i'm sure MPLAB produces one too, AVR Studio, CodeVision, etc. all do) and then use pony programmer to download the hex file to the chip.

So, even if MPLAB doesn't support the hardware programmer you buy, i'm sure it still produces the needed .HEX file so you can use any other software to put your code on the chip.

 

[Jay.slovak]

Big Advantage of Using programmer MPLAB recognize is one "klick" programming... It's just easy and fast. You write your code in MPLAB, click BUILD, MPLAB makes HEX (if the source is error free) and then it automatically burns the program into the chip (with verifiing) and runs the program in the real circuit (this feature can be turned off, ofcourse). This speeded up my developing...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Big Advantage of Using programmer MPLAB recognize is one "klick" programming... It's just easy and fast. You write your code in MPLAB, click BUILD, MPLAB makes HEX (if the source is error free) and then it automatically burns the program into the chip (with verifiing) and runs the program in the real circuit (this feature can be turned off, ofcourse). This speeded up my developing...

WinPicProg can do that as well - once you've loaded the HEX file ONCE, you can set it so it will automatially detect the changed HEX file, reload it, and blow the chip - all with WinPicProg just running in the background.

Compared to the extremely SLOWWWW! PICStart+, this makes development much faster.

 

[Jay.slovak]

Big Advantage of Using programmer MPLAB recognize is one "klick" programming... It's just easy and fast. You write your code in MPLAB, click BUILD, MPLAB makes HEX (if the source is error free) and then it automatically burns the program into the chip (with verifiing) and runs the program in the real circuit (this feature can be turned off, ofcourse). This speeded up my developing...

WinPicProg can do that as well - once you've loaded the HEX file ONCE, you can set it so it will automatially detect the changed HEX file, reload it, and blow the chip - all with WinPicProg just running in the background.

Compared to the extremely SLOWWWW! PICStart+, this makes development much faster.

Hmm I didn't know WinPicProg is doing so (I never tried it ). And I don't know anything about PICStart+ either (eg it's slowness), I just said my experience with ICD2 (As you definitelly know)...

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I just said my experience with ICD2 (As you definitelly know)...

Yes I know, I might build one to have a play with! - I've got a MAX232 and 16F876 knocking about in my spares box 8)

 

[Jay.slovak]

I just said my experience with ICD2 (As you definitelly know)...

Yes I know, I might build one to have a play with! - I've got a MAX232 and 16F876 knocking about in my spares box 8)

Just add couple resistors, transistors and 7805 and voila, new ICD2

 

[YAN-1]

Ok. So whatever programmer I end up buying, I can just write my program in MPLAB, assemble it, and then take the hex file and put it on the software that comes with thte programmer and burnt the PIC? Or I could of course just find a PIC start plus and just use MPLAB! By the way, the PIC start plus was slow sometimes but in the worst cases, it took like 10 seconds to program. Is that what you guys were referring to as SLOOOOW?! But then it got faster when I used a newer version of MPLAB. Maybe I just never saw the extremely faster programmers.

 

[Jay.slovak]

Ok. So whatever programmer I end up buying, I can just write my program in MPLAB, assemble it, and then take the hex file and put it on the software that comes with thte programmer and burnt the PIC? Or I could of course just find a PIC start plus and just use MPLAB!.

Yes, it's exactly as you say!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

By the way, the PIC start plus was slow sometimes but in the worst cases, it took like 10 seconds to program. Is that what you guys were referring to as SLOOOOW?! But then it got faster when I used a newer version of MPLAB. Maybe I just never saw the extremely faster programmers.

For some bizzare reason the designers of the PICStart+ made it so it programs the complete memory space?, even for only a few bytes. If you're programming a 1K device (like a 16F84) then it takes about 10 seconds (1024 x 10mS), likewise a 2K device will take about 20 seconds.

But many (most?) PIC programs are fairly small, so while a 100 byte program will still take 10 or 20 seconds on a PICStart+, it will only take 1 second on a faster programmer - which doesn't waste time programming blank space.

With a PICStart+ it makes good sense to use 'proper' FLASH devices, where available - such as the 16F876A and 16F877A. As FLASH programs more than one byte at a time it makes it much faster - if I recall correctly, the 876/7A programs 8 bytes at a time, making it 8 times as fast.

 

[YAN-1]

Thanks a lot. By the way, how long does is take one to gather all that information and experience?!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Thanks a lot. By the way, how long does is take one to gather all that information and experience?!

You never stop gathering! - I can't even remember when I first started with PIC's, but it was in the DOS days - certainly well pre-Win95, win3.0 might have been about?, I can't remember.

But all MicroChip tools were DOS only, and I wrote PICProg using Turbo Pascal, and later (as far as I know?) I released the worlds first Windows PIC programmer software, written in Delphi 1.0 and running under Windows 3.1. It was done basically to learn to use Delphi, it wasn't until a number of versions later I started calling it WinPicProg - basically because I could buy that domain name!.