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permanent markers

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patroclus

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I've done 3 PCBs drawing the traces with a permanent ink pen. But the Ferric Clorhidre always attacks partilly the traces, so they are not shiny, and it's a pain to solder on it (alos, some traces are partially damaged).

It still works, but now I want to do a more complex project and I need to do better.

I use a Stadtler Lumocolor 0,4 pen. And here¡s the strange thing.. I also used for my last PCB a Stadtler Lumocolor (same as the other, but 0,8), and all the traces and pads done with it, were shiny and almost perfect!

So, I supose is not my fault, and that I use a not good pen for this. Any recomentdation?? Thanks!!
 
I did, but could not find this things :

* What thickness is it recommended for the tracks?? maybe 04 mm is too thin?
* Brand of a perfect working permanent marker (appart from sharpie, if any).

thanks.
 
I use the Sharpie markers and haven't had any problems related to the ink lifting, or the likes. However, to help prevent this from ever occuring, I go back over all of the traces and pads with the marker 2 or 3 times to make sure that the ink is on nice and thick. Once I have gone back over the design with the marker, I wait about 30 minutes for the ink to dry before I go back over the design again, otherwise the ink tends to streak the previous drawing. When I'm finally satisfied, I wait 2 or more hours for the ink to fully cure, before etching. It's a bit like paint, it may feel dry to the touch, but it takes a couple hours for the ink to fully dry.

Here's a good link on what size traces to use for a given amperage. Scroll down to "Placing Signal Traces" You'll need to convert the inches into mm.
1 inch = 25.4 mm
You can then solve for mm by using a proportion:
1 inch / 25.4 = Trace width in inches / X mm

cross multiply and solve for "X"
**broken link removed**
 
Thank you :)
This page recomendes signal traces of 0,2 mm, which is imposible for me to draw with a marker (thinest is 0,4mm). Do you use 0,4mm marker??

Really, it seems best to draw with 0,6mm marker, but when you need higher density, or just to cross a line betwwen 2 IC pins, it turns maybe too thick.

I'll try to get another 0,4mm marker.
 
Well with my sharpie markers, I have a "Ultra Fine tip" marker which would make a line about 1.5 mm thick, which I rarely use. I generally make my traces about 4 - 5 mm for signal traces just to be sure the etchant doesn't etch away the trace. For larger traces, like you said, I double or triple up the line. If the trace is a couple mm larger than what is stated on the chart, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Make sure the virgin PCB is absolutely clean before you lay any marker ink on it. This would ensure the ink adherence to the PCB. My method is to wet sand the PCB lightly with a small piece of 800-grade sandpaper. I then use undiluted dishwashing detergent to remove any traces of finger grease or oil and dry with a clean rag. When I ink the traces, I take care not to touch the copper side with my fingers.
 
I've also used sharpie markers (usually "extra fine point") and it gave me traces about 0.019" (~0.5mm) wide. I have a flatbed plotter and made a special adapter to hold the pen. Then I used a CAD (DOS!) program to lay out my boards and plotted directly to the cleaned copper board. I got great results at the time and some of my boards are still in use today approx 14 years later. I now use the positive photo process though ...
 
I've also used sharpie markers (usually "extra fine point") and it gave me traces about 0.019" (~0.5mm) wide. I have a flatbed plotter and made a special adapter to hold the pen. Then I used a CAD (DOS!) program to lay out my boards and plotted directly to the cleaned copper board. I got great results at the time and some of my boards are still in use today approx 14 years later. I now use the positive photo process though ...

What a neat little idea. Sometimes I wish that I had a flatbed for those nasty PCB's. I suppose the photo process would be just as easy, and less expensive for occasional production. I have yet to venture into the photo world because I just can't rectify the cost because I'm studying more, and producing less. Maybe on down the road a bit, I'll get into the photo world.
 
:eek:
I use tar dissolved in gasoline, after complete dissolved result a black solution that can be used with an old pen. But is a little bit difficult to work with it because the gasoline is very volatile and have tendicy to dry on the pen. On the other hand will result a mask of dry tar very resistent to ferric chloride and many acids. At 10-15 minutes after deposition can be put into eatching solution. After end of eatching the remain tar can be removed with gasoline very easy.
 
People get hung up on the "permenent" label. I get good results for a laundry marker. Works better than my Sharpie. I only use it to fix large black areas that didn't toner transfer properly. though.
 
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